Mediocre wheelbuilder discovers a trick

I know all you hotshot wheelbuilders out there will think this is
obvious or trivial, but here goes: All the books I've read on
wheelbuilding say you should true alternately for rim runout and out-
of-round. But I've discovered that after truing for, say, runout,
squeezing each pair of spokes together is really helpful. By
squeezing them together, it is really easy to tell which ones are too
tight and which ones are too loose because they will feel so different
from the other pairs of spokes that have about the right tension.
When the spokes are still fairly loose, loosen each spoke that seems
too tight until it has roughly the same tension as the others on the
same side, and tighten each spoke that seems too loose until it has
the same tension as the others on that side. When you start to get
the spokes pretty tight, make these adjustments by only 1/4 or 1/2
turn or so at a time. Then proceed to true for roundness. Then
before you alternate back to truing for for runout again, do the spoke-
squeeze thing again. This procedure solved all the problems I was
having getting wheels round and true! I was never able to figure out a
foolproof, systematic and methodical way of getting all the spokes at
the same tension until I started doing this.

OK, hotshots, go ahead and tell me how dumb I was not to have
discovered this a long time ago! Doh!

On Nov 5, 8:28*am, Bill wrote:
I know all you hotshot wheelbuilders out there will think this is
obvious or trivial, but here goes: *All the books I've read on
wheelbuilding say you should true alternately for rim runout and out-
of-round. But I've discovered that after truing for, say, runout,
squeezing each pair of spokes together is really helpful. *By
squeezing them together, it is really easy *to tell which ones are too
tight and which ones are too loose because they will feel so different
from the other pairs of spokes that have about the right tension.
When the spokes are still fairly loose, loosen each spoke that seems
too tight until it has roughly the same tension as the others on the
same side, and tighten each spoke that seems too loose until it has
the same tension as the others on that side. *When you start to get
the spokes pretty tight, make these adjustments by only 1/4 or 1/2
turn or so at a time. *Then proceed to true for roundness. *Then
before you alternate back to truing for for runout again, do the spoke-
squeeze thing again. *This procedure solved all the problems I was
having getting wheels round and true! I was never able to figure out a
foolproof, systematic and methodical way of getting all the spokes at
the same tension until I started doing this.

OK, hotshots, go ahead and tell me how dumb I was not to have
discovered this a long time ago! *Doh!

Thanks Bill,
That statement helps me with my problem I have had for awhile as I
have just started to do
my own wheel work. No flames from me on this topic.
Cheers,
Rick in Tennessee

Bill wrote:

I know all you hotshot wheelbuilders out there will think this is
obvious or trivial, but here goes: *All the books I've read on
wheelbuilding say you should true alternately for rim runout and out-
of-round. But I've discovered that after truing for, say, runout,
squeezing each pair of spokes together is really helpful. *By
squeezing them together, it is really easy *to tell which ones are too
tight and which ones are too loose because they will feel so different
from the other pairs of spokes that have about the right tension.
When the spokes are still fairly loose, loosen each spoke that seems
too tight until it has roughly the same tension as the others on the
same side, and tighten each spoke that seems too loose until it has
the same tension as the others on that side. *When you start to get
the spokes pretty tight, make these adjustments by only 1/4 or 1/2
turn or so at a time. *Then proceed to true for roundness. *Then
before you alternate back to truing for for runout again, do the spoke-
squeeze thing again. *This procedure solved all the problems I was
having getting wheels round and true!

That's a good technique. I am accustomed to giving spokes a little
pluck to hear them when deciding which ones to adjust and in which
direction.

My latest refinement to my truing method has been to run the rim in
the notched portion of the indicator and true for lateral and radial
position at the same time, rather than alternately. Almost every
displacement has a bias on the other axis, and by observing the vector
of the displacement and the relative tensions of spokes in the area,
it becomes more obvious which spokes need the most taking up or
letting out, and how many spokes must be adjusted to correct any given
deviation. By truing both axes in the same operations, I find that I
can spend less time sorting out a wheel, keep more consistent tension,
and send out repaired wheels that are usually both truer and rounder
than new.

Chalo

On 5 Nov, 17:44, Chalo wrote:
Bill wrote:

I know all you hotshot wheelbuilders out there will think this is
obvious or trivial, but here goes: *All the books I've read on
wheelbuilding say you should true alternately for rim runout and out-
of-round. But I've discovered that after truing for, say, runout,
squeezing each pair of spokes together is really helpful. *By
squeezing them together, it is really easy *to tell which ones are too
tight and which ones are too loose because they will feel so different
from the other pairs of spokes that have about the right tension.
When the spokes are still fairly loose, loosen each spoke that seems
too tight until it has roughly the same tension as the others on the
same side, and tighten each spoke that seems too loose until it has
the same tension as the others on that side. *When you start to get
the spokes pretty tight, make these adjustments by only 1/4 or 1/2
turn or so at a time. *Then proceed to true for roundness. *Then
before you alternate back to truing for for runout again, do the spoke-
squeeze thing again. *This procedure solved all the problems I was
having getting wheels round and true!

That's a good technique. *I am accustomed to giving spokes a little
pluck to hear them when deciding which ones to adjust and in which
direction.

My latest refinement to my truing method has been to run the rim in
the notched portion of the indicator and true for lateral and radial
position at the same time, rather than alternately. *Almost every
displacement has a bias on the other axis, and by observing the vector
of the displacement and the relative tensions of spokes in the area,
it becomes more obvious which spokes need the most taking up or
letting out, and how many spokes must be adjusted to correct any given
deviation. *By truing both axes in the same operations, I find that I
can spend less time sorting out a wheel, keep more consistent tension,
and send out repaired wheels that are usually both truer and rounder
than new.


Couple of lolly sticks with the rim 'sitting' in the V seems to work
well.

Bill wrote:
I know all you hotshot wheelbuilders out there will think this is
obvious or trivial, but here goes: All the books I've read on
wheelbuilding say you should true alternately for rim runout and out-
of-round. But I've discovered that after truing for, say, runout,
squeezing each pair of spokes together is really helpful. By
squeezing them together, it is really easy to tell which ones are too
tight and which ones are too loose because they will feel so different
from the other pairs of spokes that have about the right tension.
When the spokes are still fairly loose, loosen each spoke that seems
too tight until it has roughly the same tension as the others on the
same side, and tighten each spoke that seems too loose until it has
the same tension as the others on that side. When you start to get
the spokes pretty tight, make these adjustments by only 1/4 or 1/2
turn or so at a time. Then proceed to true for roundness. Then
before you alternate back to truing for for runout again, do the spoke-
squeeze thing again. This procedure solved all the problems I was
having getting wheels round and true! I was never able to figure out a
foolproof, systematic and methodical way of getting all the spokes at
the same tension until I started doing this.

OK, hotshots, go ahead and tell me how dumb I was not to have
discovered this a long time ago! Doh!

I tend to spin the wheel and run a pencil on the spokes for a quick
test of tension. Then I'm afraid I use a tensiometer

Am I alone in being able, at a rough guess, to get a wheel true in
both axis? I am a bit anal on counting turns. In as much as I thread
the nipples, leave say 3 threads open, then go around the wheel 1/2 a
turn at a time till it starts to come up to tension, then start
messing about. Most of the wheels come up straight and true very
quickly by this method.

Tosspot wrote:

I am a bit anal on counting turns. *In as much as I thread
the nipples, leave say 3 threads open, then go around the wheel 1/2 a
turn at a time till it starts to come up to tension, then start
messing about. *Most of the wheels come up straight and true very
quickly by this method.

I keep counting turns until the wheel has a significant amount of
tension throughout-- no slack remaining anywhere. I find that some of
the anomalies I would otherwise try to true out before that point
disappear in the process of bringing the wheel up to tension.

Chalo

On Nov 5, 3:02*pm, Chalo wrote:
Tosspot wrote:

I am a bit anal on counting turns. *In as much as I thread
the nipples, leave say 3 threads open, then go around the wheel 1/2 a
turn at a time till it starts to come up to tension, then start
messing about. *Most of the wheels come up straight and true very
quickly by this method.

I keep counting turns until the wheel has a significant amount of
tension throughout-- no slack remaining anywhere. *I find that some of
the anomalies I would otherwise try to true out before that point
disappear in the process of bringing the wheel up to tension.

Exactly. & when I do have an ugly displacement,
it is often easier to just loosen everything up and
try again (more carefully).

Per Tosspot:
Am I alone in being able, at a rough guess, to get a wheel true in
both axis? I am a bit anal on counting turns. In as much as I thread
the nipples, leave say 3 threads open

I'm the same way with counting turns - and I do a lot of quarter
turns.

Never had any problem with hop.

When I'm truing laterally, I use a Sharpie pen to mark spokes or
rim at the apex of the misalignment. Then I go back and
tighten/loosen spokes around same.
--
PeteCresswell

leave say 3 threads open, then go around the wheel 1/2 a
turn at a time till it starts to come up to tension, then start
messing about.


Wheel trueing discussion does implement considerable language
problems, amusing reading in itself.
Chalo, who does build wheels, here describes the expert’s method.
Bill, on the other uh foot, either gropes for language or missed a
turn – nit criticism but a point passed thru muhself.
The idea (opinion) is carefully seating nipples equally just so –
against the rim.
Noting carefully where the rim is out then correcting those deviations
from the start, from the first nudge. As there’s no reason not to
tighten the OUTS before the more or less true then continue with 10%
more in the outs as you go.
The anaomalies:” I find that some of
the anomalies I would otherwise try to true out before that point
disappear in the process of bringing the wheel up to tension.” YUP!
Brandt points out that as the wheel goes to true, the math effect
takes place where in fact all surfaces tend to become equally
distributed forces. Think on it right. TRUE !
Somewhere down road on maybe the 10th build, if you’re smart enough
with spatial planning and analysis – like yawl really gotta try here
it just doesn’t osmose that easily, the radial and lateral will come
together.
I count and mark with the sharpy from the middle of the OUT then true
middle out with decreasing torques.
And try quarter tightening not circumferential, latter introducing
stray forces best left equalized in quartering.
?

if spokes are bent at the start before seating nipples or yawl bend
spokes by squeezing then how would you tell if the nipples are
actually seated equally ?