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#11
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Sep 4, 3:18 pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:
On Sep 4, 2:46 pm, y_p_w wrote: I saw a black bear sow with cubs. It sent one cub up a tree next to the trail, at which point I backed off on the off-chance that it aggressively defended its young. I was certainly cautious, with a good deal of respect that it could cause serious injury if so inclined. It was after I reported my sighting that I heard from rangers/naturalists/etc that black bear sows typically retreat from their cubs when scared off. I've also heard of first-hand reports of someone chasing off a black bear sow with young. My bro-in-law and I have seen numerous sows with cubs on trails, and in the backcountry at least, typically the sow will become alert, and then take her children away from us as fast as she can go. I agree, the chance of a mom bear with cubs attacking is unlikely, as long as a reasonable buffer or escape route is present. I'm sure it noticed me. Once I backed off and one cub was able to climb down, it didn't really seem all that interested in me. I got that first photo before I realized there was another cub up a tree. After I ascertained that it wasn't worried about my presence, I took several photos over about three minutes. I could have sworn it intentionally posed for this one ("Here - get my good side!"). http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears1tr1.jpg In the front country, this behavior seems to depend alot more on how accustomed to humans the bears are - haivng said that, I have never personally seen aggression - more likely, tolerance or insouciance. I have not seen a mother bear in a tight spot ever, so I can't directly comment on that situation - but that could be what happened, especially if she was surprised. I realize the important thing is to never corner a bear into a place where it can only get out by me. I was in the woods where there were plenty of escape routes. |
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#12
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus" wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message . .. What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only defending her cubs! Mike http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html: Black bear attacks bicyclist in park Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT By KOMO Staff Watch the story NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday, according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials. Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw the dogs were barking at a bear. Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get back on his bike and ride away. Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who called 911. The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious condition, but is expected to recover. One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be OK. Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it. Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is found. Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail. Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear, who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said. Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive. "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary." -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number one twit-extraordinaire on usenet. It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his outfit?! -- You're joking, right? Well known fact? I've rarely heard such a sweeping and baseless statement, but I should expect it from you. Black bears are more unpredictable than grizzlies, and more likely to attack without provocation. That is not to say there was no provocation in this incident, intentional or otherwise. To say "It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to defend their cubs." is absolute stupidity and is a classic display of your near complete ignorance. |
#13
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:46:59 -0700, y_p_w wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:00 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote: On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus" wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message .. . What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only defending her cubs! Mike http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html: Black bear attacks bicyclist in park Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT By KOMO Staff Watch the story NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday, according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials. Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw the dogs were barking at a bear. Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get back on his bike and ride away. Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who called 911. The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious condition, but is expected to recover. One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be OK. Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it. Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is found. Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail. Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear, who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said. Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive. "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary." -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number one twit-extraordinaire on usenet. It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his outfit?! WTF? Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. He was probably eating in bed.. Male black bears aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to attack cubs, which could include their own young. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2947472.shtml Here's a California DFG listing of black bear attacks in California. Fortunately there's never been a reported human fatality from a black bear attack in California or Nevada. http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/be...incidents.html Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have been known to attack. I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs. http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/W..._Wildlife.html "Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat. Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions about this species." -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:43:11 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus" wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only defending her cubs! Mike http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html: Black bear attacks bicyclist in park Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT By KOMO Staff Watch the story NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday, according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials. Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw the dogs were barking at a bear. Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get back on his bike and ride away. Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who called 911. The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious condition, but is expected to recover. One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be OK. Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it. Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is found. Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail. Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear, who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said. Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive. "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary." -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number one twit-extraordinaire on usenet. It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his outfit?! -- You're joking, right? Well known fact? I've rarely heard such a sweeping and baseless statement, but I should expect it from you. Black bears are more unpredictable than grizzlies, and more likely to attack without provocation. That is not to say there was no provocation in this incident, intentional or otherwise. To say "It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to defend their cubs." is absolute stupidity and is a classic display of your near complete ignorance. I notice that you can't given even ONE other reason. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:46:48 -0700, y_p_w wrote:
On Sep 4, 2:29 pm, Bruce Jensen wrote: On Sep 4, 1:46 pm, y_p_w wrote: WTF? Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to attack cubs, which could include their own young. Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the very least, it was surprised. The Utah incident above also involved some questionable human-food handling, IIRC. Sure. However - the attack was for a different reason than a black bear sow defending its cubs. I don't know that that was an "attack". It was probably simply following the smell of food. I notice that you haven't offered any other reason for a black bear to attack a human, even though you say there are such reasons. Sometimes it's keeping an unclean camp or other attractant. I just disagree with Vandeman's ill-informed blanket statement that there's only one reason why a black bear would attack a human. This is not a challenge, but simply an effort to learn - If you have a reference for a male bear attacking its own offspring, I would like to see it. My reading has suggested that males will attempt to kill other children, but not his own. Most of the references I've read are that a black bear male mates within a few days, then goes off solo without ever being able to identify its own cubs. Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have been known to attack. To reiterate, this bear suddenly found itself confronted with two screaming dogs and a rapidly moving cyclist. That is not what a typical hiker would present to a bear, with or without cubs. That could freak out a bear. I have heard of freak defensive attacks when a bear was surprised. However - it could be a male, female, or juvenile. Again - black bear attacks happen for more reasons than just a sow defending cubs. I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs. No doubt, this is cause for great caution. An attack by a mother bear is still no excuse for killing the bear. In fact, this very year, an attack on Jim Cole up at Yellowstone by a mom bear protecting her baby(s) in an area where people generally if not specifically move about was treated by simply leaving the bears alone. Cole, OTOH, had a history of pestering bears to the point of provoking violent reactions. NPS will typically only remove bears if they (1) have found humans to be a reliable source of food and act on that finding, or (2) they have killed a human and have thus probably found that people taste good. It is likely that neither one of these things occured here. http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/W..._Wildlife.html "Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat. Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions about this species."- Hide quoted text - Maybe true, but I'd hate to test this nugget. Nevertheless, a surprised bear is a dangerous bear. And, the bear is typically only dangerous until after the surprise has passed. I saw a black bear sow with cubs. It sent one cub up a tree next to the trail, at which point I backed off on the off-chance that it aggressively defended its young. I was certainly cautious, with a good deal of respect that it could cause serious injury if so inclined. It was after I reported my sighting that I heard from rangers/naturalists/etc that black bear sows typically retreat from their cubs when scared off. I've also heard of first-hand reports of someone chasing off a black bear sow with young. http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?i...cbears0jo9.jpg -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#16
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
Would you have posted this if the story was about a hiker and his two dogs
walking along the trail. The dogs ran ahead and started barking, the hiker then came around the turn ... You are scum of the lowest form -- actually, you give real scum a bad name. You sit at home and giggle like a little girl when your search engine finds this ****. |
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Sep 4, 9:19 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:46:48 wrote: On Sep 4, 2:29 pm, Bruce Jensen wrote: On Sep 4, 1:46 wrote: WTF? Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to attack cubs, which could include their own young. Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the very least, it was surprised. The Utah incident above also involved some questionable human-food handling, IIRC. Sure. However - the attack was for a different reason than a black bear sow defending its cubs. I don't know that that was an "attack". It was probably simply following the smell of food. Dragging an 11 year old 400 yards from a tent was an attack. Possibly one that could have been avoided, but still an attack. Bears have been known to claw/bite people if they think they can get food. I notice that you haven't offered any other reason for a black bear to attack a human, even though you say there are such reasons. Are you freaking kidding me? They'll attack when startled. I've read of numerous incidents where someone was clawed or bitten when a bear was surprised by a person while it was going through garbage/food. My favorite stories are about idiots feeding bears that just turned on them. Some attacks have been seemly random, like the Cherokee National Forest mauling in 2006. That was just a family on the trail, attacked by a male bear. It was also exceedingly rare. http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_87516.asp I posted this earlier, but I guess it's not valid if it doesn't validate your ill-advised statements: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/be...incidents.html "Los Angeles County, July 2003 - A male hiker was knocked down by a bear at a remote campsite along the Pacific Crest Trail in the Angeles National Forest. The hiker had just reached the camp, which was empty, dropped his pack on a picnic table, and was looking for a place to hang his food. As he walked back toward the pack, he heard a noise behind him. As he turned he was knocked to the ground by a bear. After standing over him for a few seconds, the bear grabbed the backpack and began dragging it off. The man shouted at the bear and threw rocks until the bear finally retreated without the backpack. The hiker received only minor bruises and was not seriously hurt. Los Angeles County, July 2001 - A woman was bitten on the arm by a bear at a county-run tree farm near La Verne. The bear, which was earlier spotted climbing on a nearby trash can, reportedly walked up to the woman while she was seated at a picnic table and bit her on the arm. The woman was treated at a hospital for puncture wounds. The bear was later shot and killed by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies. The bear weighed approximately 85 pounds and was estimated at one to two years of age. Trinity County, May 1986 - A 35-year old man was attacked at around 3 a.m. while camping in a tent in the Trinity Alps Wilderness. The victim felt that he was caught in the middle of a fight between two boars when one bear attacked him in his tent. The bear left when the victim hit the bear with a tentpole. Two bears then returned and acted aggressively toward each another before they finally left. The victim sustained several puncture wounds to his shoulder and lacerations to the back of his head. Siskiyou County, September 1986 - A long-time resident of a small rural community was injured while feeding a bear at his residence. The victim had been feeding bears at this location for more than 30 years." |
#18
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
In article .com,
Bruce Jensen wrote: This is not a challenge, but simply an effort to learn - If you have a reference for a male bear attacking its own offspring, I would like to see it. My reading has suggested that males will attempt to kill other children, but not his own. Since Male Bear do NOT Hybernate, (Den up) with Female Bears after there second winter, just how does a Male Bear know if another Bear is its offspring? Male and Female Bears only come together during Mating, and otherwise spend most of their time singley, after leaving MOM, in the Spring of their Second Year. Yearling cubs ARE a Food Source for Black Bears, if they should come across them in late Fall. (Just before Denning Up for the winter) The extra Fat Content is very welcome as a Nitie Nite Snack, before the long sleep. We had a Sow, Shot & Killed (Long Sad Tale - Picture of the Three, on my Website - www.99850.net) here last Fall, that had three cubs. All were eaten by other Black Bears within 2 weeks of moms demise. Just Nature doing it's thing...... Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:29:22 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote: Since Male Bear do NOT Hybernate, (Den up) with Female Bears after there second winter, just how does a Male Bear know if another Bear is its offspring? The younger bear asks for money and the keys to the car? |
#20
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become irritating.
While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore, they can and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack is measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of recreational visitor days a year in black bear country). The motivation for the attack can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one of the more common reasons), to being startled or surprised by human (usually hikers on a trail) appearing in their path, to viewing humans as a competitor (i.e., protecting a food source) to even viewing humans in very rare cases as a form of food (what appears to have happen in Utah). The bear in Utah had apparently bothered someone in a tent the previous day and the bear did not stumble into the tent looking for food, sliced the tent open and took the boy (much as they do fawns) off into the brush to eat him. I can provide reasonable assurance, he was not frisking the boy for a PB&J, but actually viewed him as food. We are left with a great deal of uncertainty as to why this particular bear saw this boy in this case as food as these types of events are rare and therefore we lack any statistical reason to account for it. The crazy bear theory is as good as any. Some carnivores (as a species) are rather aggressive toward humans such as leopards, tigers and African lions, while others only rarely cross that line - black bears fall into the latter category. While it is not unreasonable to querry the use the lethal option in this case - keep in mind, Wildlife Services and timber companies are killing thousands of bears a year for girdling trees, while sport hunters throughout North America are killing several thousand more. In addition, state game agencies in North America are killing several hundred more bears because of bear-human conflicts. Placed into context, the loss of one bear from a mt. biker pales when compared to the thousands upon thousands of bears killed because of real or percieved conflicts with humans on foot. ummm, do you think Mikey has lost all perceptive. Yeah. |
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