rust inside the frame how to treat it

I have a bike that has been sitting in the outdoors for 3 years. I
bought it from the guy-a ganwell pro. Hand made(?) japanese bike, all
shimano105 parts. there was some water that drained out of the small
holes in the frame
is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or slow
down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you fill up the
insides with.
the frame is steel.
thank you direct email welcomed

What KIND of steel is it?

CrMo - seems to me - is fairly rust resistant. Ridden hard and put away wet
for a decade, my last CrMo frame had LIGHT surface rust inside the untreated
tubes. It never "flaked" or got deep/structural.

If you're really concerned, 1st, remove any rust that's in there. Try a long
wire brush - tubular shaped on a long handle - designed for cleaning inside
pipes.

Once the rust is gone, you can do one of two things: use a moisture barrier
or a catylist that reacts with the metal to make it inert.

I went the vapour barrier route - boiled linseed oil. Spray with one of
those pump spray bottles like Windex comes in, coat the inside of all tubes
and DRAIN the excess out. (trust me - you don't want this stuff dripping out
onto your drive train - it turns to brick-parmesan)

Works for me. Biodegradable, smells nice, non-toxic.
Some people recommend WD40 and such oils. I don't like these as moisture
barriers because they never dry or if they do, they seem to lose their
protective properties. WD40 specifically was designed to displace water and
be reapplied repeatedly. (or as a temporary lube)

Dried linseed oil, as I say, is like a brick of parmesan cheese - very hard
and plastic-like - and only needs one application.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get a lot of other replies.

Chris


"Alan Smollen" wrote in message
...
I have a bike that has been sitting in the outdoors for 3 years. I
bought it from the guy-a ganwell pro. Hand made(?) japanese bike, all
shimano105 parts. there was some water that drained out of the small
holes in the frame
is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or slow
down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you fill up the
insides with.
the frame is steel.
thank you direct email welcomed

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:29:10 +0900, Alan Smollen
wrote:

I have a bike that has been sitting in the outdoors for 3 years. I
bought it from the guy-a ganwell pro. Hand made(?) japanese bike, all
shimano105 parts. there was some water that drained out of the small
holes in the frame
is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or slow
down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you fill up the
insides with.
the frame is steel.
thank you direct email welcomed

Take off the seat post, fork, and bottom bracket, then coat the inside
with boiled linseed oil.

Jasper

well here we are again. there's a book hear. follow up to Frank. ima
gonna look over the archives to see what distills for search terms.
linseed is your first shot. take the bike apart for new bearings and
fresh grease. how one sprays the tubes a without fouling the BB grease
??.
place frame in hot sun for 3-4 hours. rotate frame positions so all
moisture boils up and out. thin linseed a bit.
cap tube ends with rags screwed in tight. pour in some linseed.
rotate frame. dance with frame. hold frame overhead. hot sun.
thinned linseed flows over the tube's insides several times.
the thinner's oil content will allow the linseed to dry slowly.
linseed tends to cut off the flow of water and O2 into any rust. rust
then hardens underthe linseed and the rate of conversion from Fe to the
FeO's slows to wqithin your ride lifetime.
if you decide the bike is a gem you may then take it to a pro in more
or less one piece

the above implies- a. you have the tools, and 2. are a capable bike
mechanic.
or you will soon be one. see Parks' mechanics site and search world cat
for a barnetts manual near you. see sheldon brown!! harris cyclery

Alan Smollen writes:

I have a bike that has been sitting in the outdoors for 3 years. I
bought it from the guy-a ganwell pro. Hand made(?) Japanese bike,
all Shimano105 parts. There was some water that drained out of the
small holes in the frame is there some way to treat the inside of
the tubing to prevent or slow down the rusting? I heard on this
group of a spray that you fill up the insides with. The frame is
steel.

The way these post come up with some regularity, I suspect they could
be "paid political advertisements" for non-steel frames. Rust inside
frames has not been a problem over 100 years of steel frames. The
only failures of note were from leaving newspaper stuffing inside a
frame after painting or having a large opening at the seat post with
no drain at the bottom bracket.

There are plenty of ancient steel frames that have spent a lifetime in
out door bicycle racks and serving well. On the other hand, this
might be a "no loose ends" fetish.

Jobst Brandt

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:22:32 GMT, wrote:

The way these post come up with some regularity, I suspect they could
be "paid political advertisements" for non-steel frames. Rust inside
frames has not been a problem over 100 years of steel frames. The
only failures of note were from leaving newspaper stuffing inside a
frame after painting or having a large opening at the seat post with
no drain at the bottom bracket.

Well, I've had a frame break at the seattube/bottom bracket interface
which may have been partially down to rust. Although probably more
external rust than internal -- the brazing held, but the bottom bracket
lug bit came off the rest of the BB pot. I suspect badly made lugs in
combination with the rust -- the rust on the outside was fairly minor, but
especially visible around all the brazed areas and also the
welded/whatevered areas on the lugs. I suspect the heat of the brazing may
actually contribute, not so much to a weakening of the material, but
somehow to making the material more rust sensitive, and/or the paint on it
less resistant to wear.

Jasper

"The way these post come up with some regularity, I suspect"
Yup, always suspect. Meglomania as well: what his name-topper right?
via Sony. IAMINCONTROLOFBIKETECH!yaaaahhhh!
Rust inside frames has not been a problem over 100 years of steel
frames-but on this tell Curtis and Scott, possibly BMW.
the real deal here is menatl health. rebuild the bike and with any
experience under your TT-the tube's insides nag at you-linseed seams to
be the simple answer.
how can the rebuilder ig nore what's left? or what isn't left? getting
a good look at the top tube continues as a problem area. this reminds
of NASA's new boom. boom boom ood thinking .
I'll wait until I trip over an ex merxck in the boat house before going
to the strippers.

riding back down the blvd past the deluxe new HEALTH PARK - a voice
crossed the 1/8 mile of grass
"we're gonna digum up and take a look!!"

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:29:10 +0900 Alan Smollen
wrote:

is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or slow
down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you fill up the
insides with.
the frame is steel.

I like LPS-3. You don't fill the frame with it. Just let it coat
everything. Distruction of a frame by rust is extremely rare, but it
does occasionally happen.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

Jim Adney writes:

is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or
slow down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you
fill up the insides with. The frame is steel.

I like LPS-3. You don't fill the frame with it. Just let it coat
everything. Destruction of a frame by rust is extremely rare, but
it does occasionally happen.

To test the value of this advice, I suggest you take a clean piece of
steel, for instance a tinned can with the tin steel wooled off, an
spray some LPS-3 or WD-40 on it before laying it out in the morning
dew for a few days.

These lubricants do not displace water but rather emulsify with it.
The inside of a frame, as I mentioned, is not at hazard from moisture
unless you work at it.

WD-40 as Gore-tex are religious icons without merit. They live
entirely on faith. Let's tie and solder spokes again as the ancients
did religiously... without merit. Also beware, smooth tread bicycle
tires will aquaplane and cause crashes on wet roads... and many more.

Jobst Brandt