Brake Modulator Invention

Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup, was
profiled on Cozy Beehive today : http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices? It
seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's bike.
There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off their
bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. Somehow, its all
funny to some people.



BD

On Jun 8, 12:04*pm, bicycle_disciple
wrote:
Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup, was
profiled on Cozy Beehive today :http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices? It
seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's bike.
There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off their
bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. Somehow, its all
funny to some people.

BD

great find; thanks for the post

On Jun 8, 9:04*am, bicycle_disciple wrote:
Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup, was
profiled on Cozy Beehive today :http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices? It
seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's bike.
There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off their
bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. Somehow, its all
funny to some people.

BD

This device would seem to distribute front and rear tension in the
same ratio no matter which lever is actuating, and if you tried to use
both brake levers you just get one hand fighting the other and not
increased braking force. So there's not much point to having two brake
levers on a bike using this.

Second, there is no effective braking here until both the front and
rear brake pads are brought to the rim, so you have to have the brake
pads set much closer to the rim to avoid running out of brake lever
travel.

In any case it's questionable policy to actuate the front and rear
brakes proportionally as this device does. The harder you are stopping
the greater proportion of the braking should be done with the front.

-pm

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:04:08 -0700, bicycle_disciple wrote:

Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup, was
profiled on Cozy Beehive today : http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices? It
seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's bike.
There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off their bikes
and hitting the pavement smack in the head. Somehow, its all funny to
some people.



BD

I put this in the category of a solution looking for a problem.

The reason for pitchover was discussed by in DeLong's Guide to Bicycles
and Bicycling. It's the combination of short wheelbase and high center of
gravity of the bicycle/rider system. The relative differences in these
parameters vis-a-vis an automobile is striking. What merely causes the
hood to dip on an automobile, causes the rear wheel to lift off the
ground and throw the rider over the handlebars.

The solution is fairly simple - change the weight distribution. Straight
arming while braking causes the body to move back. This causes the center
of gravity to move back and effectively resist the tendency of the rear
wheel to lift off the ground.

Stephen Bauman

On Jun 8, 2:27*pm, pm wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:04*am, bicycle_disciple wrote:

Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup, was
profiled on Cozy Beehive today :http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices? It
seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's bike.
There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off their
bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. Somehow, its all
funny to some people.

BD

This device would seem to distribute front and rear tension in the
same ratio no matter which lever is actuating, and if you tried to use
both brake levers you just get one hand fighting the other and not
increased braking force. So there's not much point to having two brake
levers on a bike using this.

Second, there is no effective braking here until both the front and
rear brake pads are brought to the rim, so you have to have the brake
pads set much closer to the rim to avoid running out of brake lever
travel.

In any case it's questionable policy to actuate the front and rear
brakes proportionally as this device does. The harder you are stopping
the greater proportion of the braking should be done with the front.

-pm

pm,

Yes you do fight with the levers after a point. Infact you can
actually tell that the cables are linked to a seesaw pivot because of
oppostive lever actions.
But that can be a good thing too, as too much power on the front wheel
can cause a flip-over. The philosophy behind the brakes seem to be
that when the front lever is depressed too much, the rear brake
touches the rear wheel first anyway, and since the rear wheel has more
load and traction (due to weight distribution) before braking, some of
the forward momentum is absorbed bringing the bicycle to a safe stop
(instead of a flip-over). But I can see how this brake will not find
their way with experienced riders, as they tend to want to use brakes
individually and differently in different situations.


BD

On Jun 8, 3:39*pm, Stephen Bauman wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:04:08 -0700, bicycle_disciple wrote:
Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup, was
profiled on Cozy Beehive today :http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices? It
seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's bike.
There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off their bikes
and hitting the pavement smack in the head. Somehow, its all funny to
some people.

BD

I put this in the category of a solution looking for a problem.

The reason for pitchover was discussed by in DeLong's Guide to Bicycles
and Bicycling. It's the combination of short wheelbase and high center of
gravity of the bicycle/rider system. The relative differences in these
parameters vis-a-vis an automobile is striking. What merely causes the
hood to dip on an automobile, causes the rear wheel to lift off the
ground and throw the rider over the handlebars.

The solution is fairly simple - change the weight distribution. Straight
arming while braking causes the body to move back. This causes the center
of gravity to move back and effectively resist the tendency of the rear
wheel to lift off the ground.

Stephen Bauman

Stephen :

Correct. And I wish there were clinics or instructional events for
bicyclists that teach them this skill. However, beginning riders don't
tend to think of this a lot. Even in an emergency situation, unless
you're a really trained person, anyone is likely to death-grip the
levers to stop without adjusting their weight distribution. Whether
this can cause pitchover or not can be debated but some form of
directional or steering control is lost which opens up a list of
things that could happen with the rider.


BD

On Jun 8, 5:05*pm, wrote:
someone sniped anonymously:

Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup,
was profiled on Cozy Beehive today:

*http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices?
It seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's
bike. *There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off
their bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. *Somehow,
its all funny to some people.

*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html

Jobst Brandt


Hi Jobst,

While your theory sounds credible, I do not see how a rider can brace
with his hands against the deceleration when the rear wheel is
airborne and center of gravity is high. I see that Sheldon Brown
called the theory 'plausible.' http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html.
I think any beginner rider's impulse reaction would be free his hands
and cushion himself against hitting his shoulder or head on the
ground. The one way I see where bracing can be effective is when you
actually let the front brake roll through the front wheel, and
deliberately center yourself on the bike to do a quick endo. But in
that case, you're not letting the front wheel lockup and only a
skilled rider knows how to accomplish this. In Budbrakes, we're
talking about a dumbed down bicycle with a mechanism that prevents
lockup of the front wheel so a beginner rider won't get hurt.
Ofcourse, that's no excuse to not learn the proper skill and technique
involved in braking manually.

-Ron

On Jun 8, 6:23*pm, wrote:
Ron who? wrote:
Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup,
was profiled on Cozy Beehive today:

*http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices?
It seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's
bike. *There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off
their bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. *Somehow,
its all funny to some people.
*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html
Hi Jobst,
While your theory sounds credible, I do not see how a rider can
brace with his hands against the deceleration when the rear wheel is
airborne and center of gravity is high. *I see that Sheldon Brown
called the theory 'plausible.'

*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html.

You say "when the rear wheel is airborne" and I said the rider cannot
get his rear wheel off the ground when he tries to do so as a
demonstration of your belief.

Maybe you need to look up the word "plausible" and not imply that it
means that this is an unproven concept. *Try it yourself if that will
convince you. *The last thing an inept rider recalls after "going over
the bars" is that he applied the brake after which he was airborne,
never assessing cause and effect.

I think any beginner rider's impulse reaction would be free his
hands and cushion himself against hitting his shoulder or head on
the ground. *The one way I see where bracing can be effective is
when you actually let the front brake roll through the front wheel,
and deliberately center yourself on the bike to do a quick endo.

I don't understand what this paragraph means or what you intended by
it. *How about riding as described, bracing against the bars while
braking the front wheel hard enough to raise the rear wheel. *I think
you'll see that it requires more braking than you would consider
prudent or possible for a beginner in face of alternative levels of
braking that all who write about it assume exist, moderated or
otherwise.

But in that case, you're not letting the front wheel lockup and only
a skilled rider knows how to accomplish this. *In Budbrakes, we're
talking about a dumbed down bicycle with a mechanism that prevents
lockup of the front wheel so a beginner rider won't get hurt.
Of course, that's no excuse to not learn the proper skill and
technique involved in braking manually.

What do you mean "front wheel lockup and only a skilled rider knows
how to accomplish this"? *The point is that you cannot readily "lock
up the front wheel" using the brake even in an attempt to raise the
rear wheel off the ground, skilled or amateur. *You are in charge, so
if you succeed, you can release the brake. *It takes more than a
couple of seconds to overturn and you can release the brake in less
than a tenth of that.

It seems you believe only skilled riders can cause an end-over by
strong braking. *I suspect you have a financial interest in convincing
people that there is nothing other than buying your product to be safe
on their bicycles.

Jobst Brandt

In all honesty I have no financial interests in promoting the product.
This is false speculation about others.

I feel it opens doors to discussion in this topic, that's all, and
help the inventor get feedback and possible ways to improve the
design. You send us all a link to your dated article, but did not
comment on the design itself. Your thoughts are welcome. Would you
also interpret what you mean by rider having to "brace" against
declaration? And how is a beginning rider to know how to do this
effectively, say, while mountain biking on a downhill track?


-Ron

On Jun 8, 6:59*pm, B wrote:
On Jun 8, 6:23*pm, wrote:



Ron who? wrote:
Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup,
was profiled on Cozy Beehive today:

*http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices?
It seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's
bike. *There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off
their bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. *Somehow,
its all funny to some people.
*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html
Hi Jobst,
While your theory sounds credible, I do not see how a rider can
brace with his hands against the deceleration when the rear wheel is
airborne and center of gravity is high. *I see that Sheldon Brown
called the theory 'plausible.'

*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html.

You say "when the rear wheel is airborne" and I said the rider cannot
get his rear wheel off the ground when he tries to do so as a
demonstration of your belief.

Maybe you need to look up the word "plausible" and not imply that it
means that this is an unproven concept. *Try it yourself if that will
convince you. *The last thing an inept rider recalls after "going over
the bars" is that he applied the brake after which he was airborne,
never assessing cause and effect.

I think any beginner rider's impulse reaction would be free his
hands and cushion himself against hitting his shoulder or head on
the ground. *The one way I see where bracing can be effective is
when you actually let the front brake roll through the front wheel,
and deliberately center yourself on the bike to do a quick endo.

I don't understand what this paragraph means or what you intended by
it. *How about riding as described, bracing against the bars while
braking the front wheel hard enough to raise the rear wheel. *I think
you'll see that it requires more braking than you would consider
prudent or possible for a beginner in face of alternative levels of
braking that all who write about it assume exist, moderated or
otherwise.

But in that case, you're not letting the front wheel lockup and only
a skilled rider knows how to accomplish this. *In Budbrakes, we're
talking about a dumbed down bicycle with a mechanism that prevents
lockup of the front wheel so a beginner rider won't get hurt.
Of course, that's no excuse to not learn the proper skill and
technique involved in braking manually.

What do you mean "front wheel lockup and only a skilled rider knows
how to accomplish this"? *The point is that you cannot readily "lock
up the front wheel" using the brake even in an attempt to raise the
rear wheel off the ground, skilled or amateur. *You are in charge, so
if you succeed, you can release the brake. *It takes more than a
couple of seconds to overturn and you can release the brake in less
than a tenth of that.

It seems you believe only skilled riders can cause an end-over by
strong braking. *I suspect you have a financial interest in convincing
people that there is nothing other than buying your product to be safe
on their bicycles.

Jobst Brandt

In all honesty I have no financial interests in promoting the product.
This is false speculation about others.

I feel it opens doors to discussion in this topic, that's all, and
help the inventor get feedback and possible ways to improve the
design. You send us all a link to your dated article, but did not
comment on the design itself. Your thoughts are welcome. Would you
also interpret what you mean by rider having to "brace" against
declaration? And how is a beginning rider to know how to do this
effectively, say, while mountain biking on a downhill track?

-Ron

I meant "deceleration".

On Jun 8, 5:46*pm, B wrote:
On Jun 8, 5:05*pm, wrote:





someone sniped anonymously:

Budbrake, a bicycle brake modulator to prevent front wheel lockup,
was profiled on Cozy Beehive today:

*http://tinyurl.com/ks6lyg

Any thoughts/comments on the effectiveness of modulation devices?
It seems like something wise to do to have it installed on a kid's
bike. *There are plenty of Youtube videos showing kids falling off
their bikes and hitting the pavement smack in the head. *Somehow,
its all funny to some people.

*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html

Jobst Brandt

Hi Jobst,

While your theory sounds credible, I do not see how a rider can brace
with his hands against the deceleration when the rear wheel is
airborne and center of gravity is high. I see that Sheldon Brown
called the theory 'plausible.'http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html.
I think any beginner rider's impulse reaction would be free his hands
and cushion himself against hitting his shoulder or head on the
ground. The one way I see where bracing can be effective is when you
actually let the front brake roll through the front wheel, and
deliberately center yourself on the bike to do a quick endo. But in
that case, you're not letting the front wheel lockup and only a
skilled rider knows how to accomplish this. In Budbrakes, we're
talking about a dumbed down bicycle with a mechanism that prevents
lockup of the front wheel so a beginner rider won't get hurt.
Ofcourse, that's no excuse to not learn the proper skill and technique
involved in braking manually.

-Ron- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

where kids are concerned avoiding traffic is paramount, I don't want
to confuse a kid needing to emergency stop having him try to remember
to modulate his braking to avoid an endo.