best wheels to go faster for a big/strong guy?

kevinkiller wrote:
Well, it's decided that I'm going to get the Velocity Aerohead OC rims with
36 spokes (for stiffness) on the rear and 32 (for durability) on the front.
I'm wondering: Do people really think the extra expense for double-butted
spokes really makes a difference in wheel stiffness?Not really strength? yesdurability?yes

What about these: "Double butted (1.8/1.6) oval spokes (Wheelsmith AE15) on
the front and
left rear. 2.0/1.8 spokes on the right rear. 3x all around." that Ron Ruff
recomended.

Expensive, answers no question, solves no problem. No reason to spend
the extra $.

I assume that they're even more expensive than the "regular"
double-butted spokes. Any why (1.8/1.6) non-drive side if I'm using an OC
rim. Isn't the whole point of the OC to have the same spoke tension on both
sides? Doesn't that mean you should have the same sized spokes on both
sides?

The tension is closer but not equal on both sides. Tension is tension,
regardless of spoke dimensions as well, in kgf.


Thanks again everybody for you support and advise,

J.

Ron Ruff wrote:
kevinkiller wrote:
I'm wondering: Do people really think the extra expense for double-butted
spokes really makes a difference in wheel stiffness? strength? durability?


It's good to have the spokes more elastic in the middle, and thicker on
the ends where they normally break. Butted spokes are both lighter and
less likely to break than straight guage.If you use the same # of
spokes, the wheel will be slightly less stiff... but I don't see that
as a problem.

What about these: "Double butted (1.8/1.6) oval spokes (Wheelsmith AE15) on
the front and
left rear. 2.0/1.8 spokes on the right rear. 3x all around." that Ron Ruff
recomended. I assume that they're even more expensive than the "regular"
double-butted spokes.

Not really. The AE15s have been around a long time and the price has
always been reasonable. They are only $0.59 apiece form Odds and Endos.
The Sapim, Wheelsmith, and DT spokes that are similar, but have 2.0
ends cost around $2 each for some reason.

http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/20/cat20.htm?44

Any why (1.8/1.6) non-drive side if I'm using an OC
rim. Isn't the whole point of the OC to have the same spoke tension on both
sides? Doesn't that mean you should have the same sized spokes on both
sides?


An OC rim helps, but doesn't eliminate the tension difference. The
Wheelsmith 2.0/1.7 spokes on that same page ($0.49 each) would be good
drive side spokes with AE15s on the left side. It isn't necessary to
have thinner spokes on the left side (ever) but it makes sense to me.

Not good advice, IMO. This is a big guy and using thin center section
spokes anywhere in the rear is not going to make for a reliable wheel.
The 'weight' savings are almost negligable but the wheel will not be as
reliable as using 14/15 all around. Plus we have seen more than a few
WS 2/1.7 spokes fail and stretch to the point of not being useable.


BTW, if you saw my last post, I don't think the aero advantage is
negligible when going from an Aerohead to Fusion or Deep V.I did some
preliminary calculations using Zipp's data on the Ksyrium vs GL330,
that shows about a 0.5 mph advantage (more than the 2+mph/10 I stupidly
rattled off in my first post) with an aero rim & spokes compared to 36
round, box section. That's is for somebody your size going about 22mph
on flat road, calm day. It is more than I expected, but I haven't been
able to find any errors in what I did and it checks out with some other
data, so...


I think the only 'error' is assuming that these results will always be
there and are predicatable. Maybe for an engine powered something but
for human power, all things must be equal and for a rider, that just
isn't true.

Wheels by BFWG wrote:


I specialize in building light and durable wheels for "clydesdale" riders.
I'm 1/7 (working on getting back down to 1/8 or 1/9) of a ton of cyclist
myself so have battled wheel issues my whole career. I can set you up with
a set of wheels anywhere from $450 to $700 depending on your budget and
details of the components you choose.

Contact me by e-mail and I can fill you in on the options.

I'm not light, never have been but haven't been 'battling' wheel issues
my whole life. The build is more important than the parts. Decent rims,
decent hubs, enough spokes, well built= reliable wheels,



....... but I know you know that. good luck on your wheelbuilding biz, a
great biz to be in, designing wheels specifically for a rider's needs.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

I think the only 'error' is assuming that these results will always be
there and are predicatable. Maybe for an engine powered something but
for human power, all things must be equal and for a rider, that just
isn't true.

Certainly the engine (rider) is a fairly large variable from day to
day, and so is the wind and the weather. But if we can ride with wheels
that reduce drag by a significant amount, we will still be faster on
average. A 0.5mph bonus seems like a lot to me, especially for a
competitive rider.

I was able to verify this with some old data from a German magazine
(Tour) where they compared a Rigida 18 (30mm deep) with oval spokes vs
"standard 36 hole", and the difference in power reading on an SRM works
out to about 0.5mph in that case as well.

Ron Ruff wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

I think the only 'error' is assuming that these results will always be
there and are predicatable. Maybe for an engine powered something but
for human power, all things must be equal and for a rider, that just
isn't true.

Certainly the engine (rider) is a fairly large variable from day to
day, and so is the wind and the weather. But if we can ride with wheels
that reduce drag by a significant amount, we will still be faster on
average. A 0.5mph bonus seems like a lot to me, especially for a
competitive rider.

I was able to verify this with some old data from a German magazine
(Tour) where they compared a Rigida 18 (30mm deep) with oval spokes vs
"standard 36 hole", and the difference in power reading on an SRM works
out to about 0.5mph in that case as well.

Fair enough but by saying that a single piece of equipment 'WILL'
improve performance irks me, the stuff of advertising lizards. Even if
it did, the difference would be teeny, tiny.

On 22-Aug-2005, P. Chisholm wrote:

Fair enough but by saying that a single piece of equipment 'WILL'
improve performance irks me, the stuff of advertising lizards. Even if
it did, the difference would be teeny, tiny.

See http://www.velokraft.com/nocom.htm for a single piece of equipment that
will greatly increase your speed.

--
Sniper Anon

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Sniper Anon wrote:


See http://www.velokraft.com/nocom.htm for a single piece of equipment that
will greatly increase your speed.

But be sure to wear your carbon shorts where the chain rubs yer
butt...bicycles run amok.com