Clarification Needed: Definition of Dish

I am under the impression that any deviation of a spoke from a straight
path from center of hub to rim is considered to be non-zero dish or
dished.

Is this not true?

Under this definition, a front is equally dished (if properly built)
and most rears are unequally dished.

Little help here?

D'ohBoy

On 26 Jan 2006 13:47:00 -0800, "D'ohBoy" wrote:

I am under the impression that any deviation of a spoke from a straight
path from center of hub to rim is considered to be non-zero dish or
dished.

Is this not true?

Under this definition, a front is equally dished (if properly built)
and most rears are unequally dished.

Little help here?

On a bicycle, the dish is the deviation of the plane of the center of
the rim from the center of the axle, or in some contexts it is the
deviation from the center of the hub.

http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#dish

Most front wheels are zero-dish. Most rear wheels have significant
dish.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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Hi, Mr. Dough

Dish isn't really a good word for the condition. To me "dish" refers to
something like a dinner dish, w/ a lowered area to keep yer pees from
rolling off the edge. The term dish of a bicycle wheel is used in an
abstract way. No bicycle wheel has a true dinner plate dish. All it
means is a simple concept that the Center Line of the hub should be
aligned perfectly w/ the CL of the rim. Except that for all modern
multi speed hubs this is impossible, due to the space taken up by the
rear cogs, which causes the right flange to be asymmetrical w/ a
different distance form the CL than the left FLG. The CL of the rear
hub becomes a "virtual CL" defined by 1/2 the distance between the hub
lock nuts (called "OLD - Over Locknut Distance". see:
http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_n-o.html#old )

To see how to determine the distance from the virtual CL to the right
flange see Damon Rinard's spocalc site @
http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm

The only time it's important to know the dish or distance of rt. flg.
is when calculating the length of spokes, & to get an idea of the
potential strength and /or longevity of a wheel. The shorter the
distance of rt. flg. the weaker the wheel will probably be, all thing
equal. A typical Shimano Mt. bike rear hub is ~22mm, Shimano Road hub
is ~20mm. All Campy hubs that I know of are ~16mm.
The reality of all this all comes together when finishing building a
wheel. The centering of the wheel is checked w/ an alignment gage or
bridge, sometimes called a "dish stick".
In W. Virginia I once heard it called a "deesh steek"

Hope this helps more than confuse, John
Actually for am much better explanation of all this just read Sheldon's
Glossary & site about wheels, posted above.
But I've written all this & I'll be damned if I'm going to delete it

..

john wrote:

Dish isn't really a good word for the condition. To me "dish" refers to
something like a dinner dish, w/ a lowered area to keep yer pees from
rolling off the edge. The term dish of a bicycle wheel is used in an
abstract way. No bicycle wheel has a true dinner plate dish.

This is true, though the term is quite well established in English usage.

Perhaps you'd prefer the French term for this: "parapluie", i.e.,
"umbrella."

Another cool French term is "voilée" to describe a wheel that is "potato
chipped" (east coast) or "tacoed" (west coast.)

Voilée comes from "voile", the French word for a sail.

Sheldon "Degauchissage" Brown
+------------------------------------+
| France, France...if not for you, |
| the world would be alone! |
| --Victor Hugo |
+------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown writes:

Dish isn't really a good word for the condition. To me "dish"
refers to something like a dinner dish, w/ a lowered area to keep
yer pees from rolling off the edge. The term dish of a bicycle
wheel is used in an abstract way. No bicycle wheel has a true
dinner plate dish.

This is true, though the term is quite well established in English
usage.

I think there is still a bit of unclarity about what constitutes dish
or no-dish. Today, due to narrowly spaced and off center hub flanges,
along with offset rims, a more precise definition is in order. Dish
is the difference in lateral angle of the left and right spokes of a
wheel as they enter the rim expressed in distance of offset. That is,
if the conical dish of the left spokes has a different depth than the
right, the difference is the amount of dish (disparity) of the wheel.

Jobst Brandt

This is true, though the term is quite well established in English usage.
I agree, Sheldon. That's not what I was trying to say. It's just that
it can be a little misleading, and somewhat comical
Best, John

john Wrote:
Hi, Mr. Dough

Dish isn't really a good word for the condition. To me "dish" refers
to
something like a dinner dish, w/ a lowered area to keep yer pees from
rolling off the edge.

..

If ya mush yer pees,... er, peas, ya don't hafta worry about em
rollin off.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

In article ,
Sheldon Brown wrote:

john wrote:

Dish isn't really a good word for the condition. To me "dish" refers to
something like a dinner dish, w/ a lowered area to keep yer pees from
rolling off the edge. The term dish of a bicycle wheel is used in an
abstract way. No bicycle wheel has a true dinner plate dish.

This is true, though the term is quite well established in English usage.

Perhaps you'd prefer the French term for this: "parapluie", i.e.,
"umbrella."

Another cool French term is "voilée" to describe a wheel that is "potato
chipped" (east coast) or "tacoed" (west coast.)

Voilée comes from "voile", the French word for a sail.

A potato chip and a lettuce leaf exemplfy a surface of
negative curvature. The surface of a sphere is a surface
of positive curvature. Sails for wind driven craft
exemplify surfaces of positive curvature. A wheel that is
`potato chipped' is more like a surface of negative
curvature than it is like a sail.

--
Michael Press

But what 'bout before & while mashing em? Dan

If ya mush yer pees,... er, peas, ya don't hafta worry about em
rollin off.
Dan

Point taken. Those of us who live in the glass house of spelling hell
shouldn't throw stones.

Thanks, John