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#11
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Campagnolo Electronic
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 08:26:04 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
That said, this putative super-commuter is competing with the near-free lightly-used old road bikes that are thick on the ground most places. You have to really like cleanliness, low maintenance, and unfussy shifting to pay the premium for a hub-shifting bike. 600-800 euro bikes with various hub gears (shimano 7s, 8s, and srams), roller brakes, Shimano hub dynamo, full chaincase, and all the rest of the mod cons for commuter bikes are selling like hotcakes over here. Jasper |
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#12
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Campagnolo Electronic
On 24 Aug 2005 09:38:13 GMT, Antti Salonen
wrote: I have a modern Campagnolo drivetrain on both of my bikes and I don't think there can be any real improvement on the way it works. I'm not sure what you mean by sequential shifting, but Campagnolo levers already allow changing multiple gears with a single press of the lever of the button. I[1] want to have one button for **** up, and one for down. I don't give a **** whether it shifts front or rear or both to do that -- let the computer figure it out. When I don't want to bother at all, I might want to set the drivetrain to auto, and let it base up and down shifts on my cadence (perhaps warning me with a buzzer that it's about to shift). I'm sure they'll figure out other cool stuff after a while. Jasper [1] Well, the hypothetical target market for this kind of thing, anyway. I'd just as soon know what's happening. |
#13
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Campagnolo Electronic
Bob De Jonge wrote:
Anyway - you should be able to get well over 10,000 miles from a chain on a road bike. Hi, since you seem to have well documented data and good performance, I'm curious about: How you determine when the chain is worn out. Which chains you use. What conditions you ride in (wet, dry, dusty?). Type of cogs/rings and how long they last. There are a lot of opinions on this subject, but objective long-term information is pretty rare... |
#14
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Campagnolo Electronic
Jasper Janssen wrote:
600-800 euro bikes with various hub gears (shimano 7s, 8s, and srams), roller brakes, Shimano hub dynamo, full chaincase, and all the rest of the mod cons for commuter bikes are selling like hotcakes over here. I'm not sure where "over here" is, but I'm assuming Germany or perhaps Denmark. I saw those a lot over there and they are indeed very sensible bikes for their typical use. For some reason, over here, the typical new commuter bike in the same price range is a hybrid with 24 or 27 gears and a cheap, bad front suspension. Often they are sold without fenders and there is no chaincase of any kind. With small modifications they can be made into reasonably good bikes for their use but the kind of bikes you mentioned would be a lot better. For some reason they are difficult to find and are definitely not marketed. -as |
#15
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Campagnolo Electronic
"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message ... big snip Knowing Dave, a thriving market on eBay . More seriously, Rohloff hub drives compare well with new complete high-end derailer drivetrains, but at a notable weight penalty and a certain efficiency penalty. More worryingly, there's basically no used-Rohloff market, while used or OEM-surplus derailer drivetrains are available very cheaply, which is nice. Since a new Rohloff hub alone would cost substantially more than the entire price of my carefully-crafted (and race-winning) race bike, it is a very hard sell. I think the real deal, long term, will probably be the Shimano Nexus 8, which has a reasonable range of gears and reasonable performance for less than one third the price of a Rohloff. The old 7-speed version is slightly cheaper again. for the US$250 the primo hub (plus shifter) would set you back, I could make a pretty nifty US$300 super-commuter: take a road frame with horizontal dropouts, add Nexus 8 and chainguard, budget for fenders and a front dual-pivot brake with good pads. Yes, I can probably find an appropriate base bike for $10. Little maintenance, not too much money, fairly light, and way cool. http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff.html http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html The SRAM Spectro 7 is also nice, but a bit more than a Nexus 7 and a bit less than a Nexus 8: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sram.html That said, this putative super-commuter is competing with the near-free lightly-used old road bikes that are thick on the ground most places. You have to really like cleanliness, low maintenance, and unfussy shifting to pay the premium for a hub-shifting bike. Maybe next year, I would really consider one of these things if it had STI type shifting or a shifter that was compatible with drop bars and if it were quick release. The last thing I want to do during the winter is stand around in the rain, wrenching on my real wheel so I can fix a flat -- and I get a fair amount of flats in the rain due to glass and the lubricating effect of rain water. And I can't do a Tom Nakashima two-minute patch job because those stick-um patches just don't stick in the rain. -- Jay Beattie. |
#16
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Campagnolo Electronic
Not counting grams, but how much will this entire system weight? It's
gotta have a pretty decent battery to power all the actuators and the actuators have to bear some weight. Will probably not need anything on par with an HID lighting system but will still need something that can last on a long ride. What the was the logic behind going electric (reliability, efficiency)? Mavic's Mektronic did gain much acceptance in the peleton and with mainstream riders. Claude |
#17
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Campagnolo Electronic
On 24 Aug 2005 17:44:52 GMT, Antti Salonen
wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: 600-800 euro bikes with various hub gears (shimano 7s, 8s, and srams), roller brakes, Shimano hub dynamo, full chaincase, and all the rest of the mod cons for commuter bikes are selling like hotcakes over here. I'm not sure where "over here" is, but I'm assuming Germany or perhaps Denmark. I saw those a lot over there and they are indeed very sensible bikes for their typical use. The Netherlands, actually. We're absolutely bonkers for bicycles, and gearhubs in particular. There's a bit over 1 bike per inhabitant and the overwhelmingly vast supermajority of them have gearhubs, fenders, rack, lighting, and chaincase (In some cases, they were just sold as such, but have lost them somewhere along the way. C'est la vie.). We were Sturmey Archer's largest export market for decades. For some reason, over here, the typical new commuter bike in the same Your over here is Finnland? price range is a hybrid with 24 or 27 gears and a cheap, bad front suspension. Often they are sold without fenders and there is no chaincase of any kind. With small modifications they can be made into reasonably good bikes for their use but the kind of bikes you mentioned would be a lot better. For some reason they are difficult to find and are definitely not marketed. I cannot see a bike without fenders being terribly useful in Finnland. It just doesn't work in my head. Hybrids were pretty popular here for a while, when Sturmey went bankrupt, but the new Shimano 7 gearhub basically refilled the niche, and for the ultracheap, but not quite singlespeed market, there's now the taiwanese 3speed Sturmeys. Still, the hybrid or MTB base with low-end Shimano Tourney 3x6 or 7 freewheel gearing is a little bit cheaper than a threespeed Sturmey, and remains so once you get done adding fenders, a rack, lighting, and one of those little chain protector things (that are nothing of the sort, they just protect your pants from getting in the chain), so they are sometimes sold. Hardware store specials, mostly, the department stores have better stuff. Jasper |
#18
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Campagnolo Electronic
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:52:30 -0700, "Jay Beattie"
wrote: "Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message ... I think the real deal, long term, will probably be the Shimano Nexus 8, which has a reasonable range of gears and reasonable performance for less than one third the price of a Rohloff. The old 7-speed version is slightly cheaper again. I would really consider one of these things if it had STI type shifting or a shifter that was compatible with drop bars and if it were quick release. The last thing I want to do during the winter is stand around in the rain, wrenching on my real wheel so I can fix a flat -- and I get a fair amount of flats in the rain due to glass and the lubricating effect of rain water. And I can't do a Tom Nakashima two-minute patch job because those stick-um patches just don't stick in the rain. -- Jay Beattie. Then you do need the Rohloff. But, seriously, you don't need to remove the rear wheel for patching. Only for a replacement tube or tyre. Simply pull the tube out on the non-drive side, and you've got more than enough room to patch with whatever is your favourite poison. Just as easy as with the wheel off, really. Jasper |
#19
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Campagnolo Electronic
Dave Mayer wrote:
If someone develops an efficient internally geared rear hub with about 10-15 gear choices, and it comes within 200 grams of a derailleur drivetrain, then I'll be impressed. And then I will buy. Er...Rohloff? OK, it costs as much as a decent bike, but if hub gears float your boat... |
#20
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Campagnolo Electronic
On 24 Aug 2005 11:44:36 -0700, "C.H. Luu" wrote:
Not counting grams, but how much will this entire system weight? It's gotta have a pretty decent battery to power all the actuators and the actuators have to bear some weight. Will probably not need anything on par with an HID lighting system but will still need something that can last on a long ride. I don't think you'd use actuators that need power to stay in teh same place. Just get some power windows/lock actuator-like things, basically small high speed motors with large reduction geartrains (often involving a worm wheel) that only work in one direction. Jasper |
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