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not enough standards



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 21st 18, 08:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default not enough standards

On 1/20/2018 11:52 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-20 09:14, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2018 10:17 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-20 07:53, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2018 9:27 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-19 16:35, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/19/2018 5:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-19 14:55, sms wrote:

[...]

That said, the front shifter on my mountain bike stopped
going into high
last Saturday, and I had to buy a replacement set of
Deore
shifters, $40
from REI. I opened up the old one but it was beyond my
ability to fix
it, so yesterday I changed the front shifter. Definitely
can see the
advantage of not having the extra complexity. But on the
trail I was on,
which was not steep except for a few short stretches, I
wanted those
high gears.


Could have used the redneck shifter: A somewhat straight
piece of a small branch with a 90 degree li'l branch (or a
nail) sticking out the side. When a buddy's chain
pretzeled
and ripped off the front derailer that's how he
shifted. It
worked so well that he forgot to order a new derailer
for a
few months.



Easy; not even expensive:
http://www.abundantadventures.com/quads.html


Unfortunately though, quote "All Mountain TamerTM adapters
work with cranks having standard 74mm bolt circleÂ* (43.4mm
hole spacing) 5 bolt pattern only".

I could remove all the Shimano 600 stuff and mount other
stuff. It won't be expensive to do either but so far I have
tried to keep the old bike somewhat original.

Some day I'll have to. While right now I can still muscle up
the hills there is another more serious problem. I regularly
break spokes. The last one went on Wednesday on the last
10mi home. So I'll soon be looking for a 700c 7-speed FH
rear wheel with 12ga spokes, as many of them as possible. A
tandem wheel would be best but their rims are too wide. The
max tire width I can get in there is 25mm.


Shimano 600 FC6207 triple is indeed 74mm on the small ring.


My Shimano 600 double is 130mm by coarse measurement. The
derailer would not take anymore anyhow, front and rear
derailers would need to be replaced and then I might as well
buy a whole new set. Which I might do some day as I get
older or if I start tackling steeper terrain around here. So
far I just walked up really steep parts because there is
also a high chance of snapping a spoke.


Oh a road bike.Â* A horse of a different color as it were.

I think I misunderstood your comment yesterday, "Even regular 3x MTBs
like mine tucker out at 28-30mph " as referring to an MTB. Silly me.


That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the usefulness
of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much all others the
granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats me why they
don't provide 24-36-50.


I agree. Finer granularity is less useful on an MTB than a wider range.
A 24-36-50 with a 13-34 rear would be fine.

As long as I can get from about 18 gear-inches to about 120 gear-inches,
in 15-20 steps, I don't really care how it's achieved. But this is hard
to do with a 1x or a 2x with no internally geared hub or crank.
Ads
  #32  
Old January 21st 18, 04:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default not enough standards

On 2018-01-20 23:51, sms wrote:
On 1/20/2018 11:52 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-20 09:14, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2018 10:17 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-20 07:53, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2018 9:27 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-19 16:35, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/19/2018 5:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-19 14:55, sms wrote:

[...]

That said, the front shifter on my mountain bike stopped
going into high
last Saturday, and I had to buy a replacement set of
Deore
shifters, $40
from REI. I opened up the old one but it was beyond my
ability to fix
it, so yesterday I changed the front shifter. Definitely
can see the
advantage of not having the extra complexity. But on the
trail I was on,
which was not steep except for a few short stretches, I
wanted those
high gears.


Could have used the redneck shifter: A somewhat straight
piece of a small branch with a 90 degree li'l branch (or a
nail) sticking out the side. When a buddy's chain
pretzeled
and ripped off the front derailer that's how he
shifted. It
worked so well that he forgot to order a new derailer
for a
few months.



Easy; not even expensive:
http://www.abundantadventures.com/quads.html


Unfortunately though, quote "All Mountain TamerTM adapters
work with cranks having standard 74mm bolt circle (43.4mm
hole spacing) 5 bolt pattern only".

I could remove all the Shimano 600 stuff and mount other
stuff. It won't be expensive to do either but so far I have
tried to keep the old bike somewhat original.

Some day I'll have to. While right now I can still muscle up
the hills there is another more serious problem. I regularly
break spokes. The last one went on Wednesday on the last
10mi home. So I'll soon be looking for a 700c 7-speed FH
rear wheel with 12ga spokes, as many of them as possible. A
tandem wheel would be best but their rims are too wide. The
max tire width I can get in there is 25mm.


Shimano 600 FC6207 triple is indeed 74mm on the small ring.


My Shimano 600 double is 130mm by coarse measurement. The
derailer would not take anymore anyhow, front and rear
derailers would need to be replaced and then I might as well
buy a whole new set. Which I might do some day as I get
older or if I start tackling steeper terrain around here. So
far I just walked up really steep parts because there is
also a high chance of snapping a spoke.


Oh a road bike. A horse of a different color as it were.

I think I misunderstood your comment yesterday, "Even regular 3x MTBs
like mine tucker out at 28-30mph " as referring to an MTB. Silly me.


That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the
usefulness of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much
all others the granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats
me why they don't provide 24-36-50.


I agree. Finer granularity is less useful on an MTB than a wider range.
A 24-36-50 with a 13-34 rear would be fine.


It would shave 5-10 mins off most of my trips because I usually ride
garage - trails - garage.


As long as I can get from about 18 gear-inches to about 120 gear-inches,
in 15-20 steps, I don't really care how it's achieved.



I'd prefer 5-6 steps. On both the road bike and the MTB bike I shift
across 3-5 gears all the time, on the MTB sometimes more. On the road
bike this is easy and fast because it has old-fashioned friction
shifters. The MTB has those newfangled click things so it's always a
fairly lengthy and loud event.


... But this is hard
to do with a 1x or a 2x with no internally geared hub or crank.



It's a fad for city slickers who cart their MTB to a manicured sand
track and later spray on "mud in a can" to impress the guys at the pub :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #33  
Old January 22nd 18, 12:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default not enough standards

On 20-01-18 20:52, Joerg wrote:
That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the usefulness
of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much all others the
granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats me why they
don't provide 24-36-50.


My 1987 Trek 520 came with half-step gearing, 28-45-50. At one point I
changed this to something like 26-36-50, close to what you want.

That said, now my knees are happy with my mountain bike having 24/34 in
front and 11/42 in back. I use the 24/42 combination a lot on hills.
Occasionally I would have used a 44 in front for higher gears, but I
don't miss it that much.

Ned
  #34  
Old January 22nd 18, 07:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default not enough standards

On 1/22/2018 3:50 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 20-01-18 20:52, Joerg wrote:
That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the usefulness
of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much all others the
granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats me why they
don't provide 24-36-50.


My 1987 Trek 520 came with half-step gearing, 28-45-50. At one point I
changed this to something like 26-36-50, close to what you want.

That said, now my knees are happy with my mountain bike having 24/34 in
front and 11/42 in back. I use the 24/42 combination a lot on hills.
Occasionally I would have used a 44 in front for higher gears, but I
don't miss it that much.


A Nuvinci 360 CVT rear hub combined with a Schlumpf front drive would be
able to provide sufficient gear range with no derailleurs.
  #35  
Old January 22nd 18, 11:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default not enough standards

On 2018-01-22 03:50, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 20-01-18 20:52, Joerg wrote:
That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the usefulness
of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much all others the
granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats me why they
don't provide 24-36-50.


My 1987 Trek 520 came with half-step gearing, 28-45-50. At one point I
changed this to something like 26-36-50, close to what you want.

That said, now my knees are happy with my mountain bike having 24/34 in
front and 11/42 in back. I use the 24/42 combination a lot on hills.
Occasionally I would have used a 44 in front for higher gears, but I
don't miss it that much.


That wouldn't work well for me because I use the MTB right from my
garage. So the miles close to home are all on pavement and I'd liked to
be able to step on it. With 34 as max up front I'd be redlining with my
legs all the time except on the trails. Even on singletrack there are
stretches where one can pull above 20mph. Smokey isn't out there :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #36  
Old January 23rd 18, 11:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default not enough standards

On 22-01-18 23:29, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-22 03:50, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 20-01-18 20:52, Joerg wrote:
That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the usefulness
of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much all others the
granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats me why they
don't provide 24-36-50.


My 1987 Trek 520 came with half-step gearing, 28-45-50. At one point I
changed this to something like 26-36-50, close to what you want.

That said, now my knees are happy with my mountain bike having 24/34 in
front and 11/42 in back. I use the 24/42 combination a lot on hills.
Occasionally I would have used a 44 in front for higher gears, but I
don't miss it that much.


That wouldn't work well for me because I use the MTB right from my
garage. So the miles close to home are all on pavement and I'd liked to
be able to step on it. With 34 as max up front I'd be redlining with my
legs all the time except on the trails. Even on singletrack there are
stretches where one can pull above 20mph. Smokey isn't out there :-)


For me not so critical: In Switzerland you can take your bike on the
train
(https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-servic...e-by-bike.html
)or post service bus (https://www.postauto.ch/en ) to get to the start
of your off-road tour. In 15 minutes I am at the Zurich main train
station, from where trains go in every direction without long waits. A
great contribution to my quality of life... :-)

Ned
  #37  
Old January 23rd 18, 04:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default not enough standards

On 2018-01-23 02:12, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 22-01-18 23:29, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-01-22 03:50, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 20-01-18 20:52, Joerg wrote:
That was in a different context. I meant that a smaller chain ring up
front (especially if there is only one) seriously crimps the usefulness
of a bike for longhaul routes. On my MTB and pretty much all others the
granularity up front is too fine, 24-32-42 or so. Beats me why they
don't provide 24-36-50.

My 1987 Trek 520 came with half-step gearing, 28-45-50. At one point I
changed this to something like 26-36-50, close to what you want.

That said, now my knees are happy with my mountain bike having 24/34 in
front and 11/42 in back. I use the 24/42 combination a lot on hills.
Occasionally I would have used a 44 in front for higher gears, but I
don't miss it that much.


That wouldn't work well for me because I use the MTB right from my
garage. So the miles close to home are all on pavement and I'd liked to
be able to step on it. With 34 as max up front I'd be redlining with my
legs all the time except on the trails. Even on singletrack there are
stretches where one can pull above 20mph. Smokey isn't out there :-)


For me not so critical: In Switzerland you can take your bike on the
train
(https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-servic...e-by-bike.html
)or post service bus (https://www.postauto.ch/en ) to get to the start
of your off-road tour. In 15 minutes I am at the Zurich main train
station, from where trains go in every direction without long waits. A
great contribution to my quality of life... :-)


Well, here we have cars for that. Yet this is not what I consider real
bicycling where you truly go from A to B under 100% human power. Not
using power coming from a combustion process or a nuclear power station
across the border, in your case probably the one in Cattenom. A bicycle
is also a lot less noisy than a train clattering through towns.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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