#11
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Hit by car
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote: I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also have to behave in a predictable manner. It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position. It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/ That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to spot you in that position. Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic movements. For more on this, see http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/ -- - Frank Krygowski Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross. Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right. That's why I no longer cross at lights. :-0 Andy |
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#12
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Hit by car
wrote:
San Diego ?7 Canada... |
#13
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Hit by car
On 12/10/2017 7:53 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 3:26:19 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote: I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also have to behave in a predictable manner. It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position. It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/ That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to spot you in that position. Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic movements. For more on this, see http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/ Frank, I think he was a pedestrian. I'm not so sure. He mentioned only bicyclists in a reply to me posted this morning. Where's the group rec.pedestrians.tech?? I agree, though, that right turning motorists (especially right turns on red) are a pedestrian hazard. I'm nervous about that situation whether I'm driving or walking. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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Hit by car
On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote: I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also have to behave in a predictable manner. It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position. It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/ That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to spot you in that position. Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic movements. For more on this, see http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/ -- - Frank Krygowski Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross. Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right. Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk. Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#15
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Hit by car
"Andy" wrote in message ... I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! Andy Tactical riding - I learned it on motorcycles, but it applies to bicycles too. ****wittery is expected of car drivers. |
#16
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Hit by car
On 11/12/2017 1:47 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"Andy" wrote in message ... I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! Andy Tactical riding - I learned it on motorcycles, but it applies to bicycles too. He was walking. Tactical walking I guess... ****wittery is expected of car drivers. Yeah, but not exclusively. My wife took months to recover from a clown riding his bike on a sidewalk and knocking her down as she walked out of her office door. |
#17
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Hit by car
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:48:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote: On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote: I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also have to behave in a predictable manner. It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position. It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/ That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to spot you in that position. Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic movements. For more on this, see http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/ -- - Frank Krygowski Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross. Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right. Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk. Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure! Every time one of these conversations start I always have the feeling that there is something missing. On side of the equation there is a giant 200 HP thing, clad in hard steel and weighing a ton or more. On the other side we have a thin skinned, feeble creature wearing lycra and weighing ounces for every pound her/his/its adversary weighs. Doesn't Feeble Flora (or Freddy) ever give any thought about which of the antagonists is almost assured of coming out last in any contest? -- Cheers, John B. |
#18
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Hit by car
On 12/11/2017 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:48:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote: On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote: I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also have to behave in a predictable manner. It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position. It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/ That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to spot you in that position. Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic movements. For more on this, see http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/ -- - Frank Krygowski Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross. Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right. Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk. Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure! Every time one of these conversations start I always have the feeling that there is something missing. On side of the equation there is a giant 200 HP thing, clad in hard steel and weighing a ton or more. On the other side we have a thin skinned, feeble creature wearing lycra and weighing ounces for every pound her/his/its adversary weighs. Doesn't Feeble Flora (or Freddy) ever give any thought about which of the antagonists is almost assured of coming out last in any contest? I think the fundamental error is thinking of them as antagonists. Very few motorists are actually in combat mode. If they were, no cyclist would survive. Instead, the roads have people who are trying to get where they are going, not much different than people walking on a sidewalk. Yes, some people get impatient, just as New Yorkers do when (say) tourists stop on a sidewalk to gawk at a building. But the impatience doesn't trigger attacks. Instead of an attack, a much more common problem is a motorist who gets surprised by a bicyclist's unusual move - like passing on the right as the motorist is turning right. The solution is to not violate fundamental rules of the road. In this example, the rule is sometimes called "destination positioning." That means your road position should correspond to your direction. Turning left or going straight from the extreme right side of the road is frequently hazardous. Cyclists need to realize and remember that. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#19
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Hit by car
On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 11:48:06 AM UTC-8, duane wrote:
On 11/12/2017 1:47 PM, Ian Field wrote: "Andy" wrote in message ... I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! Andy Tactical riding - I learned it on motorcycles, but it applies to bicycles too. He was walking. Tactical walking I guess... ****wittery is expected of car drivers. Yeah, but not exclusively. My wife took months to recover from a clown riding his bike on a sidewalk and knocking her down as she walked out of her office door. My wife just got knocked down by two f****** dogs who were with their owner, and in her relatively frail condition, that's no trivial matter. And what I hate is the inevitable effort to make it seem acceptable -- "oh, he just wants to say hello," or "oh, he's just so happy to see you . . ." I want to slap these idiots. It's not O.K. -- Jay Beattie. |
#20
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Hit by car
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 21:03:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 12/11/2017 8:36 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:48:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote: On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote: I was crossing crosswalk with green light. Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right. I was hit. Broke left hand and neck pain. I will never again cross at light. Will cross between blocks. Can't trust anyone!! You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also have to behave in a predictable manner. It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position. It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/ That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to spot you in that position. Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic movements. For more on this, see http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/ -- - Frank Krygowski Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle that may turn right. That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross. Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right. Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk. Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure! Every time one of these conversations start I always have the feeling that there is something missing. On side of the equation there is a giant 200 HP thing, clad in hard steel and weighing a ton or more. On the other side we have a thin skinned, feeble creature wearing lycra and weighing ounces for every pound her/his/its adversary weighs. Doesn't Feeble Flora (or Freddy) ever give any thought about which of the antagonists is almost assured of coming out last in any contest? I think the fundamental error is thinking of them as antagonists. Very few motorists are actually in combat mode. If they were, no cyclist would survive. Instead, the roads have people who are trying to get where they are going, not much different than people walking on a sidewalk. Yes, some people get impatient, just as New Yorkers do when (say) tourists stop on a sidewalk to gawk at a building. But the impatience doesn't trigger attacks. Instead of an attack, a much more common problem is a motorist who gets surprised by a bicyclist's unusual move - like passing on the right as the motorist is turning right. The solution is to not violate fundamental rules of the road. In this example, the rule is sometimes called "destination positioning." That means your road position should correspond to your direction. Turning left or going straight from the extreme right side of the road is frequently hazardous. Cyclists need to realize and remember that. I think that a lot of things like that ought to fall under the heading of "common sense". I have an intersection about 2 Km from the house where, depending on where you are going, you will have to turn right or left. Right at the corner it is 5 lanes wide (that is 5 lanes on your side and five on the other) and auto traffic will be approaching the intersection at about 50 kph. The thought of swooping gaily across five lanes of 50 kph traffic is, to me anyway, a bit daunting :-) A couple of things that I make it a practice to do is wear bright colored clothing and make sure that before I make any change in track -swoop out toward the edge or inward to the center of the road that I make some sort of physical signal, usually waving my arms. I also have a flashing white front and flashing red rear light that I make sure are on in low light conditions. The idea is not to see or be seen but more to get someone's attention, "Hey! What's that funny flashing light there?" -- Cheers, John B. |
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