Handebar broke off - nasty cash

On 8/6/2019 7:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife...

You can add up to 30 pounds of groceries or touring luggage.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 8/6/2019 6:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:49:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-06 00:55, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:13 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:

[...]


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff versus the less than
permanent stuff. It's like with cars. Japanese ones are among the best
but even they break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940 later it's all
fixed. At least it didn't fail on the road, just very gradually. My
Mitsubishi is 22 years and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the
audacity to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would learn
about that level of quality.

I see a 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse, weighing in the neighborhood of 3500
lbs.and costing US$ 24,085. I suggest that anyone selling bicycles
built to those standards probably make a "live for ever" bicycle.


That Mitsubishi can comfortably carry four people, baggae and if needed
a small trailer. Mine (Montero Sport) can carry half a ton of firewood,
and has, many times.

A bicycle only needs to carry ne rider and modest baggage. How much
effort and weight would it have taken to coat the steel stiffener tube
before pressing it in? 0.01oz? 0.02oz?

Yes, they could do better.

You are defining the needs of autos and bicycles in a manner that
"proves" your points and is wholly false. You appear to claim that an
auto is capable of carrying 4 people and baggage and a half ton of
firewood and thus is a "standard" for autos. But I owned a MG that
could carry two passengers and a tiny amount of luggage and no
firewood at all.

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife and when I was in Vietnam the guys in the welding
shop built "a bicycle built for 5" and test rode it on the parking
ramp.

It hardly seems logical to compare a $24,000, 3.500 lb behemoth with a
bicycle but you do it all the time and than when someone argues you
start talking about tons of wood.
--

Cheers,

John B.


A more fair comparison might be something like a Crosley
Roadster (light weight, chain drive, limited power) to a
bicycle. At which point the bicycle looks amazingly robust
and dependable!

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...OADSTER-218102

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/6/2019 7:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/6/2019 7:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest
amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that
carries both
himself and his wife...

You can add up to 30 pounds of groceries or touring luggage.


No problem with a 120lb woman on the seat, rider pedals
while standing. My ex loved to ride around that way.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 19:51:29 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/6/2019 6:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:49:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-06 00:55, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:13 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:

[...]


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff versus the less than
permanent stuff. It's like with cars. Japanese ones are among the best
but even they break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940 later it's all
fixed. At least it didn't fail on the road, just very gradually. My
Mitsubishi is 22 years and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the
audacity to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would learn
about that level of quality.

I see a 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse, weighing in the neighborhood of 3500
lbs.and costing US$ 24,085. I suggest that anyone selling bicycles
built to those standards probably make a "live for ever" bicycle.


That Mitsubishi can comfortably carry four people, baggae and if needed
a small trailer. Mine (Montero Sport) can carry half a ton of firewood,
and has, many times.

A bicycle only needs to carry ne rider and modest baggage. How much
effort and weight would it have taken to coat the steel stiffener tube
before pressing it in? 0.01oz? 0.02oz?

Yes, they could do better.

You are defining the needs of autos and bicycles in a manner that
"proves" your points and is wholly false. You appear to claim that an
auto is capable of carrying 4 people and baggage and a half ton of
firewood and thus is a "standard" for autos. But I owned a MG that
could carry two passengers and a tiny amount of luggage and no
firewood at all.

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife and when I was in Vietnam the guys in the welding
shop built "a bicycle built for 5" and test rode it on the parking
ramp.

It hardly seems logical to compare a $24,000, 3.500 lb behemoth with a
bicycle but you do it all the time and than when someone argues you
start talking about tons of wood.
--

Cheers,

John B.


A more fair comparison might be something like a Crosley
Roadster (light weight, chain drive, limited power) to a
bicycle. At which point the bicycle looks amazingly robust
and dependable!

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...OADSTER-218102

Perhaps not. The cost of a Crosley was in the $850 range while the
original discussion was related to a car that cost nearly b30 times as
much. and like a Cadillac or a Mercedes or even Rolls Royce the more
expensive blends are usually, in fact, of a higher quality.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 2:06:10 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

No problem with a 120lb woman on the seat, rider pedals
while standing. My ex loved to ride around that way.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Does that account for her being "ex"?

Andre Jute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MKBHR3NbU

Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 2:06:10 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

No problem with a 120lb woman on the seat, rider pedals
while standing. My ex loved to ride around that way.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Does that account for her being "ex"?

Andre Jute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MKBHR3NbU


Yeah I bet Andrew found someone to pedal for him!

--
duane

On 2019-08-06 12:32, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 2:54:58 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 07:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:45:23 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 16:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 6:22:32 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 15:10, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 4:55:14 PM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7,
jbeattie wrote:

Yes and no. I've broken steel pedal spindles
catastrophically. Spokes go all at once. Steel
fasteners snap -- axles, too. Lots of steel things
will snap, including bars after enough high energy
fatigue cycles.

-- Jay Beattie.


Cast steel will fail suddenly but with any kind of
pipe structure that's rare.


I broke a Look steel pedal spindle on a couple of
occasions. Had steel saddle rails break off and
steel spokes break in one swell foop. I have seen
steel bicycle frames fail suddenly and steel bars
suddenly bend upon hitting a pothole.


A pothole can be like an accident, like hitting an
object.


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to
it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff
versus the less than permanent stuff. It's like with
cars. Japanese ones are among the best but even they
break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940
later it's all fixed. At least it didn't fail on the
road, just very gradually. My Mitsubishi is 22 years
and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the audacity
to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would
learn about that level of quality.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Maybe you should use the tires and other components
these guys use?


Well, I do have an MTB steel handlebar on the road bike
now. Also MTB pedals (for years).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IFoSKTl1Y

I'm sure the trails in your area are not as knarly as
whatthese guys are riding over.


That's steep but not gnarly at all. Gnarly to me means full
of ruts, big rocks and stuff. Things where you can get
really hurt in a crash. Here is one of our trails and that
is gnarly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y38JzV-ueXI

People have died on that one. Went off the cliff edge
which doesn't look dangerous but the grease brush doesn't
hold anyhting and afterwards it's an almost vertical fall
(onto rocks).

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Did you watch the ENTIRE video?


Yes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Well then you must have seen them riding over rock strewn
sections of trails, jumping over some sections and landing on
rocks and doing all that whilst riding a high rate of speed.
Looking at the two videos your clip does NOT compare at all to
the route those guys took in the video I posted the link to.


Here we disagree.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Try watching this one. It's the same race. 4:32, 5:30, 5:54, 6:10+,
7:00, 7:28, 9:46+, 10:10, 11:05, 11:22, 13:20, 13:38+, 13:55, 19:15 -
19:25+, and so on. Plus they're riding that course at speed not just
picking their way through it.

I wonder how the tires and the rest of the bikes make it through such
a punishing course.


Please post the link you are referring to. Of course there will be more
gnarly tracks in other areas of the world but 4:32min in your original
link looks like a smooth access road.

On the Darrington Trail (my link) some folks blow through the downhill
sections like crazy. I had the chain slap too much and come off on one,
stopped to fix it several feet to the side of the trail, and a guy
literally flew by and rather close to me. He was completely airborne,
insane. I don't ride like that.

These trails are hard on the bike and it is prudent to carry a full tool
kit. Stuff comes loose all the time. Sometimes the tires don't hold up.
I've had a blow-out where a large chunk of rubber went awol and I had to
hike-a-bike for six miles.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2019-08-06 16:20, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:49:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-06 00:55, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:13 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:

[...]


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff versus the less than
permanent stuff. It's like with cars. Japanese ones are among the best
but even they break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940 later it's all
fixed. At least it didn't fail on the road, just very gradually. My
Mitsubishi is 22 years and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the
audacity to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would learn
about that level of quality.

I see a 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse, weighing in the neighborhood of 3500
lbs.and costing US$ 24,085. I suggest that anyone selling bicycles
built to those standards probably make a "live for ever" bicycle.


That Mitsubishi can comfortably carry four people, baggae and if needed
a small trailer. Mine (Montero Sport) can carry half a ton of firewood,
and has, many times.

A bicycle only needs to carry ne rider and modest baggage. How much
effort and weight would it have taken to coat the steel stiffener tube
before pressing it in? 0.01oz? 0.02oz?

Yes, they could do better.

You are defining the needs of autos and bicycles in a manner that
"proves" your points and is wholly false. You appear to claim that an
auto is capable of carrying 4 people and baggage and a half ton of
firewood and thus is a "standard" for autos.


It is in many areas around where I live.


... But I owned a MG that
could carry two passengers and a tiny amount of luggage and no
firewood at all.


Not a very useful car for El Dorado County but it all depends on your
lifestyle. I you stay on paved roads and do not need to haul firewood a
MG Sports is fun. A neighbor has one. Visiting friends of ours on dirt
roads, not so much. That requires a high ground clearance vehicle or an MTB.


You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife and when I was in Vietnam the guys in the welding
shop built "a bicycle built for 5" and test rode it on the parking
ramp.


I do not ride on parking ramps. I ride on trails a lot.


It hardly seems logical to compare a $24,000, 3.500 lb behemoth with a
bicycle but you do it all the time and than when someone argues you
start talking about tons of wood.


sigh

A bicycle carries _one_ rider (or a tandem two) and a modest amount of
luggage. Therefore, when a good bicycle costs $2k I expect it to be of
similar quality as mu SUV which has cost me $18k and can haul more than
10x the weight in terms of payload.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 10:59:54 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 12:32, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 2:54:58 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 07:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:45:23 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 16:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 6:22:32 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 15:10, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 4:55:14 PM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7,
jbeattie wrote:

Yes and no. I've broken steel pedal spindles
catastrophically. Spokes go all at once. Steel
fasteners snap -- axles, too. Lots of steel things
will snap, including bars after enough high energy
fatigue cycles.

-- Jay Beattie.


Cast steel will fail suddenly but with any kind of
pipe structure that's rare.


I broke a Look steel pedal spindle on a couple of
occasions. Had steel saddle rails break off and
steel spokes break in one swell foop. I have seen
steel bicycle frames fail suddenly and steel bars
suddenly bend upon hitting a pothole.


A pothole can be like an accident, like hitting an
object.


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to
it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff
versus the less than permanent stuff. It's like with
cars. Japanese ones are among the best but even they
break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940
later it's all fixed. At least it didn't fail on the
road, just very gradually. My Mitsubishi is 22 years
and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the audacity
to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would
learn about that level of quality.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Maybe you should use the tires and other components
these guys use?


Well, I do have an MTB steel handlebar on the road bike
now. Also MTB pedals (for years).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IFoSKTl1Y

I'm sure the trails in your area are not as knarly as
whatthese guys are riding over.


That's steep but not gnarly at all. Gnarly to me means full
of ruts, big rocks and stuff. Things where you can get
really hurt in a crash. Here is one of our trails and that
is gnarly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y38JzV-ueXI

People have died on that one. Went off the cliff edge
which doesn't look dangerous but the grease brush doesn't
hold anyhting and afterwards it's an almost vertical fall
(onto rocks).

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Did you watch the ENTIRE video?


Yes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Well then you must have seen them riding over rock strewn
sections of trails, jumping over some sections and landing on
rocks and doing all that whilst riding a high rate of speed.
Looking at the two videos your clip does NOT compare at all to
the route those guys took in the video I posted the link to.


Here we disagree.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Try watching this one. It's the same race. 4:32, 5:30, 5:54, 6:10+,
7:00, 7:28, 9:46+, 10:10, 11:05, 11:22, 13:20, 13:38+, 13:55, 19:15 -
19:25+, and so on. Plus they're riding that course at speed not just
picking their way through it.

I wonder how the tires and the rest of the bikes make it through such
a punishing course.


Please post the link you are referring to. Of course there will be more
gnarly tracks in other areas of the world but 4:32min in your original
link looks like a smooth access road.

On the Darrington Trail (my link) some folks blow through the downhill
sections like crazy. I had the chain slap too much and come off on one,
stopped to fix it several feet to the side of the trail, and a guy
literally flew by and rather close to me. He was completely airborne,
insane. I don't ride like that.

These trails are hard on the bike and it is prudent to carry a full tool
kit. Stuff comes loose all the time. Sometimes the tires don't hold up.
I've had a blow-out where a large chunk of rubber went awol and I had to
hike-a-bike for six miles.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pltY5vS-aOY

Cheers

On 2019-08-06 17:51, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2019 6:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:49:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-06 00:55, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:13 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:

[...]


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff versus the less than
permanent stuff. It's like with cars. Japanese ones are among the best
but even they break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940 later it's all
fixed. At least it didn't fail on the road, just very gradually. My
Mitsubishi is 22 years and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the
audacity to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would learn
about that level of quality.

I see a 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse, weighing in the neighborhood of 3500
lbs.and costing US$ 24,085. I suggest that anyone selling bicycles
built to those standards probably make a "live for ever" bicycle.


That Mitsubishi can comfortably carry four people, baggae and if needed
a small trailer. Mine (Montero Sport) can carry half a ton of firewood,
and has, many times.

A bicycle only needs to carry ne rider and modest baggage. How much
effort and weight would it have taken to coat the steel stiffener tube
before pressing it in? 0.01oz? 0.02oz?

Yes, they could do better.

You are defining the needs of autos and bicycles in a manner that
"proves" your points and is wholly false. You appear to claim that an
auto is capable of carrying 4 people and baggage and a half ton of
firewood and thus is a "standard" for autos. But I owned a MG that
could carry two passengers and a tiny amount of luggage and no
firewood at all.

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife and when I was in Vietnam the guys in the welding
shop built "a bicycle built for 5" and test rode it on the parking
ramp.

It hardly seems logical to compare a $24,000, 3.500 lb behemoth with a
bicycle but you do it all the time and than when someone argues you
start talking about tons of wood.
--

Cheers,

John B.


A more fair comparison might be something like a Crosley Roadster (light
weight, chain drive, limited power) to a bicycle. At which point the
bicycle looks amazingly robust and dependable!

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...OADSTER-218102



This is a more fair comparison:

https://www.chapmoto.com/wp/wp-conte...mg-300x200.jpg

The price difference to a good MTB isn't all that much considering the
difference in carrying loads. Yet the durability difference is day and
night. A friend has one, along with half a dozen MTB. The Yamaha never
breaks and he does several long punishing offroad rides every year, with
tent and all. He's got other offroad motorcycles as well and same thing,
no breakdowns despite some crashes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/