Handebar broke off - nasty cash

On 8/7/2019 11:11 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 17:51, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2019 6:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:49:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-06 00:55, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:13 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:

[...]


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff versus the less
than
permanent stuff. It's like with cars. Japanese ones are among the
best
but even they break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940 later it's all
fixed. At least it didn't fail on the road, just very gradually. My
Mitsubishi is 22 years and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the
audacity to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would learn
about that level of quality.

I see a 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse, weighing in the neighborhood of 3500
lbs.and costing US$ 24,085. I suggest that anyone selling bicycles
built to those standards probably make a "live for ever" bicycle.


That Mitsubishi can comfortably carry four people, baggae and if needed
a small trailer. Mine (Montero Sport) can carry half a ton of firewood,
and has, many times.

A bicycle only needs to carry ne rider and modest baggage. How much
effort and weight would it have taken to coat the steel stiffener tube
before pressing it in? 0.01oz? 0.02oz?

Yes, they could do better.

You are defining the needs of autos and bicycles in a manner that
"proves" your points and is wholly false. You appear to claim that an
auto is capable of carrying 4 people and baggage and a half ton of
firewood and thus is a "standard" for autos. But I owned a MG that
could carry two passengers and a tiny amount of luggage and no
firewood at all.

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife and when I was in Vietnam the guys in the welding
shop built "a bicycle built for 5" and test rode it on the parking
ramp.

It hardly seems logical to compare a $24,000, 3.500 lb behemoth with a
bicycle but you do it all the time and than when someone argues you
start talking about tons of wood.
--

Cheers,

John B.


A more fair comparison might be something like a Crosley Roadster (light
weight, chain drive, limited power) to a bicycle. At which point the
bicycle looks amazingly robust and dependable!

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...OADSTER-218102




This is a more fair comparison:

https://www.chapmoto.com/wp/wp-conte...mg-300x200.jpg

The price difference to a good MTB isn't all that much considering the
difference in carrying loads. Yet the durability difference is day and
night. A friend has one, along with half a dozen MTB. The Yamaha never
breaks and he does several long punishing offroad rides every year, with
tent and all. He's got other offroad motorcycles as well and same thing,
no breakdowns despite some crashes.

You've had many suggestions that you just take one of those motorcycles,
remove the engine and transmission and replace them with pedals and
cranks. Your problems would be solved.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:41:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 9:29:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:33:00 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

Somebody on my ride was saying only the other day that crashes at our age are so much more consequential. Though they were talking about breaking a hip, I thought of that when a couple of days later I fell while dismounting from my bike (I hooked the mixte bar between my foot and its heel) and landed so heavily that the deep dent in my helmet looks like the most dangerous accident I've had in 30 years of cycling -- from a standstill! The helmet saved me from a gash on the head, painful stitches, and perhaps even a concussion. That's definitely worth its price.

Andre Jute
Not an old crock

Modern safety helmets reduce concussions not by softening the blow via cushioning with the Styrofoam but by fracturing and breaking via the "vent" holes in the helmet. I have a Bontrager Wavecell helmet and it has a lot less vents for two reasons - 1. Unlike Styrofoam air passes rather freely though the open core material and 2. you have to have the Wavecell material covering most of your head to have the expected effect.

So my helmet isn't wrecked by the impact-dent?

Separate question. That helmet is actually pretty old, being on its third bike. Is there a natural raging process (embrittling?) of helmet materials that requires helmets to be replaced after x time?

Andre Jute

And impact dent ix fatal to any possible protection from a helmet Styrofoam compressed is useless. It is USED to prevent fractures of the skull and being without any cushioning anywhere at all in the helmet renders it worthless.

Yes, there is embrittlement with aging of the Styrofoam but it is a LONG process.

I bought a Chinese helmet for $23 off of Ebay and it is the best fitting helmet I ever had.

On 8/6/2019 11:01 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 19:51:29 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/6/2019 6:20 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:49:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-06 00:55, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:55:13 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:

[...]


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff versus the less than
permanent stuff. It's like with cars. Japanese ones are among the best
but even they break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940 later it's all
fixed. At least it didn't fail on the road, just very gradually. My
Mitsubishi is 22 years and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the
audacity to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would learn
about that level of quality.

I see a 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse, weighing in the neighborhood of 3500
lbs.and costing US$ 24,085. I suggest that anyone selling bicycles
built to those standards probably make a "live for ever" bicycle.


That Mitsubishi can comfortably carry four people, baggae and if needed
a small trailer. Mine (Montero Sport) can carry half a ton of firewood,
and has, many times.

A bicycle only needs to carry ne rider and modest baggage. How much
effort and weight would it have taken to coat the steel stiffener tube
before pressing it in? 0.01oz? 0.02oz?

Yes, they could do better.

You are defining the needs of autos and bicycles in a manner that
"proves" your points and is wholly false. You appear to claim that an
auto is capable of carrying 4 people and baggage and a half ton of
firewood and thus is a "standard" for autos. But I owned a MG that
could carry two passengers and a tiny amount of luggage and no
firewood at all.

You say that a bicycle carries the rider and a modest amount of
barrage yet Frank frequently mentions his bicycle that carries both
himself and his wife and when I was in Vietnam the guys in the welding
shop built "a bicycle built for 5" and test rode it on the parking
ramp.

It hardly seems logical to compare a $24,000, 3.500 lb behemoth with a
bicycle but you do it all the time and than when someone argues you
start talking about tons of wood.
--

Cheers,

John B.


A more fair comparison might be something like a Crosley
Roadster (light weight, chain drive, limited power) to a
bicycle. At which point the bicycle looks amazingly robust
and dependable!

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...OADSTER-218102

Perhaps not. The cost of a Crosley was in the $850 range while the
original discussion was related to a car that cost nearly b30 times as
much. and like a Cadillac or a Mercedes or even Rolls Royce the more
expensive blends are usually, in fact, of a higher quality.
--

Cheers,

John B.


Exactly. Those have significantly more cost and more mass.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/7/2019 12:03 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 2:06:10 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

No problem with a 120lb woman on the seat, rider pedals
while standing. My ex loved to ride around that way.


Does that account for her being "ex"?

Andre Jute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MKBHR3NbU


Not at all.

There's a well worn truism said here, "No matter how good
she looks, she's available because some other guy has had
enough of her crap."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2019-08-07 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 10:59:54 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 12:32, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 2:54:58 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 07:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:45:23 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 16:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 6:22:32 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 15:10, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 4:55:14 PM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7,
jbeattie wrote:

Yes and no. I've broken steel pedal spindles
catastrophically. Spokes go all at once. Steel
fasteners snap -- axles, too. Lots of steel things
will snap, including bars after enough high energy
fatigue cycles.

-- Jay Beattie.


Cast steel will fail suddenly but with any kind of
pipe structure that's rare.


I broke a Look steel pedal spindle on a couple of
occasions. Had steel saddle rails break off and
steel spokes break in one swell foop. I have seen
steel bicycle frames fail suddenly and steel bars
suddenly bend upon hitting a pothole.


A pothole can be like an accident, like hitting an
object.


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to
it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff
versus the less than permanent stuff. It's like with
cars. Japanese ones are among the best but even they
break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940
later it's all fixed. At least it didn't fail on the
road, just very gradually. My Mitsubishi is 22 years
and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the audacity
to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would
learn about that level of quality.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Maybe you should use the tires and other components
these guys use?


Well, I do have an MTB steel handlebar on the road bike
now. Also MTB pedals (for years).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IFoSKTl1Y

I'm sure the trails in your area are not as knarly as
whatthese guys are riding over.


That's steep but not gnarly at all. Gnarly to me means full
of ruts, big rocks and stuff. Things where you can get
really hurt in a crash. Here is one of our trails and that
is gnarly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y38JzV-ueXI

People have died on that one. Went off the cliff edge
which doesn't look dangerous but the grease brush doesn't
hold anyhting and afterwards it's an almost vertical fall
(onto rocks).

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Did you watch the ENTIRE video?


Yes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Well then you must have seen them riding over rock strewn
sections of trails, jumping over some sections and landing on
rocks and doing all that whilst riding a high rate of speed.
Looking at the two videos your clip does NOT compare at all to
the route those guys took in the video I posted the link to.


Here we disagree.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Try watching this one. It's the same race. 4:32, 5:30, 5:54, 6:10+,
7:00, 7:28, 9:46+, 10:10, 11:05, 11:22, 13:20, 13:38+, 13:55, 19:15 -
19:25+, and so on. Plus they're riding that course at speed not just
picking their way through it.

I wonder how the tires and the rest of the bikes make it through such
a punishing course.


Please post the link you are referring to. Of course there will be more
gnarly tracks in other areas of the world but 4:32min in your original
link looks like a smooth access road.

On the Darrington Trail (my link) some folks blow through the downhill
sections like crazy. I had the chain slap too much and come off on one,
stopped to fix it several feet to the side of the trail, and a guy
literally flew by and rather close to me. He was completely airborne,
insane. I don't ride like that.

These trails are hard on the bike and it is prudent to carry a full tool
kit. Stuff comes loose all the time. Sometimes the tires don't hold up.
I've had a blow-out where a large chunk of rubber went awol and I had to
hike-a-bike for six miles.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pltY5vS-aOY


After 30:00min it has some "gnarl" to it but not more than our
Darrington Trail or the route Lotus-Folsom (South Fork Trail). _This_ is
what I'd call gnarly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFjK_3i-NHQ

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 5:28:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:41:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

So my helmet isn't wrecked by the impact-dent?

Separate question. That helmet is actually pretty old, being on its third bike. Is there a natural raging process (embrittling?) of helmet materials that requires helmets to be replaced after x time?

Andre Jute

And impact dent ix fatal to any possible protection from a helmet Styrofoam compressed is useless. It is USED to prevent fractures of the skull and being without any cushioning anywhere at all in the helmet renders it worthless.

Yes, there is embrittlement with aging of the Styrofoam but it is a LONG process.

I bought a Chinese helmet for $23 off of Ebay and it is the best fitting helmet I ever had.

I don't care about the money. But I like the helmet, a Bell Citi, designed for cyclists who sit upright, with bars higher than the seat, and Bell no longer makes it. The Citi is a super helmet with a visor, and a channel in which you can attach proprietary mirror, bug screens on its many, many vents, super fit, etc. I shoulda bought a couple of spares while they were still current production.

Thanks for the info, Tom.

Andre Jute
Correct fit is the most important feature of every component on a bicycle -- and its rider

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 11:43:20 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-07 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 10:59:54 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 12:32, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 2:54:58 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-06 07:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 10:45:23 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 16:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 6:22:32 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-05 15:10, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 4:55:14 PM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-08-05 13:36, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7,
jbeattie wrote:

Yes and no. I've broken steel pedal spindles
catastrophically. Spokes go all at once. Steel
fasteners snap -- axles, too. Lots of steel things
will snap, including bars after enough high energy
fatigue cycles.

-- Jay Beattie.


Cast steel will fail suddenly but with any kind of
pipe structure that's rare.


I broke a Look steel pedal spindle on a couple of
occasions. Had steel saddle rails break off and
steel spokes break in one swell foop. I have seen
steel bicycle frames fail suddenly and steel bars
suddenly bend upon hitting a pothole.


A pothole can be like an accident, like hitting an
object.


Nothing is permanent in this world so I got used to
it.


However, one should seek the more permanent stuff
versus the less than permanent stuff. It's like with
cars. Japanese ones are among the best but even they
break down. My wife's Toyota developed a steering rack
leak afer 23 years. Unbelievable. Only 23 years. $940
later it's all fixed. At least it didn't fail on the
road, just very gradually. My Mitsubishi is 22 years
and, nada. Not even a dome light has had the audacity
to burn out. I sure wish bicycle manufacturers would
learn about that level of quality.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Maybe you should use the tires and other components
these guys use?


Well, I do have an MTB steel handlebar on the road bike
now. Also MTB pedals (for years).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IFoSKTl1Y

I'm sure the trails in your area are not as knarly as
whatthese guys are riding over.


That's steep but not gnarly at all. Gnarly to me means full
of ruts, big rocks and stuff. Things where you can get
really hurt in a crash. Here is one of our trails and that
is gnarly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y38JzV-ueXI

People have died on that one. Went off the cliff edge
which doesn't look dangerous but the grease brush doesn't
hold anyhting and afterwards it's an almost vertical fall
(onto rocks).

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Did you watch the ENTIRE video?


Yes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Well then you must have seen them riding over rock strewn
sections of trails, jumping over some sections and landing on
rocks and doing all that whilst riding a high rate of speed.
Looking at the two videos your clip does NOT compare at all to
the route those guys took in the video I posted the link to.


Here we disagree.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Try watching this one. It's the same race. 4:32, 5:30, 5:54, 6:10+,
7:00, 7:28, 9:46+, 10:10, 11:05, 11:22, 13:20, 13:38+, 13:55, 19:15 -
19:25+, and so on. Plus they're riding that course at speed not just
picking their way through it.

I wonder how the tires and the rest of the bikes make it through such
a punishing course.


Please post the link you are referring to. Of course there will be more
gnarly tracks in other areas of the world but 4:32min in your original
link looks like a smooth access road.

On the Darrington Trail (my link) some folks blow through the downhill
sections like crazy. I had the chain slap too much and come off on one,
stopped to fix it several feet to the side of the trail, and a guy
literally flew by and rather close to me. He was completely airborne,
insane. I don't ride like that.

These trails are hard on the bike and it is prudent to carry a full tool
kit. Stuff comes loose all the time. Sometimes the tires don't hold up.
I've had a blow-out where a large chunk of rubber went awol and I had to
hike-a-bike for six miles.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pltY5vS-aOY


After 30:00min it has some "gnarl" to it but not more than our
Darrington Trail or the route Lotus-Folsom (South Fork Trail). _This_ is
what I'd call gnarly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFjK_3i-NHQ

Kind of typical of the ski resort trails around here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SvgfpXTr4I Ouch.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/7/2019 2:09 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 5:28:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:41:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

So my helmet isn't wrecked by the impact-dent?

Separate question. That helmet is actually pretty old, being on its third bike. Is there a natural raging process (embrittling?) of helmet materials that requires helmets to be replaced after x time?

Andre Jute

And impact dent ix fatal to any possible protection from a helmet Styrofoam compressed is useless. It is USED to prevent fractures of the skull and being without any cushioning anywhere at all in the helmet renders it worthless.

Yes, there is embrittlement with aging of the Styrofoam but it is a LONG process.

I bought a Chinese helmet for $23 off of Ebay and it is the best fitting helmet I ever had.

I don't care about the money. But I like the helmet, a Bell Citi, designed for cyclists who sit upright, with bars higher than the seat, and Bell no longer makes it. The Citi is a super helmet with a visor, and a channel in which you can attach proprietary mirror, bug screens on its many, many vents, super fit, etc. I shoulda bought a couple of spares while they were still current production.

Thanks for the info, Tom.

Andre Jute
Correct fit is the most important feature of every component on a bicycle -- and its rider


This style was the inspiration for Citi:
https://centralsports.ie/Equestrian-Helmets-46/

Note: local vendor for you!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:44:51 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/7/2019 2:09 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 5:28:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:41:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

So my helmet isn't wrecked by the impact-dent?

Separate question. That helmet is actually pretty old, being on its third bike. Is there a natural raging process (embrittling?) of helmet materials that requires helmets to be replaced after x time?

Andre Jute

And impact dent ix fatal to any possible protection from a helmet Styrofoam compressed is useless. It is USED to prevent fractures of the skull and being without any cushioning anywhere at all in the helmet renders it worthless.

Yes, there is embrittlement with aging of the Styrofoam but it is a LONG process.

I bought a Chinese helmet for $23 off of Ebay and it is the best fitting helmet I ever had.

I don't care about the money. But I like the helmet, a Bell Citi, designed for cyclists who sit upright, with bars higher than the seat, and Bell no longer makes it. The Citi is a super helmet with a visor, and a channel in which you can attach proprietary mirror, bug screens on its many, many vents, super fit, etc. I shoulda bought a couple of spares while they were still current production.

Thanks for the info, Tom.

Andre Jute
Correct fit is the most important feature of every component on a bicycle -- and its rider


This style was the inspiration for Citi:
https://centralsports.ie/Equestrian-Helmets-46/

Note: local vendor for you!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

It's not a bad idea, and my local equestrian store, from whom I buy the neatsfoot oil I use on my leather saddles and grips, stocks either the same or very similar helmets. But 444 grammes? And only 3 forward-facing vents?

One looks at these equestrian helmets and start to understand why a cyclist's helmet is a specialist item.

Now do something really useful and tell me you have some NOS Citi in stock in a choice of colours.

Andre Jute
Ideal helmet: filled with D30 mil spec impact-hardening plastic -- it works for my phone, so why shouldn't it work for my brain?

On 8/7/2019 7:02 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 8:44:51 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/7/2019 2:09 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 5:28:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:41:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

So my helmet isn't wrecked by the impact-dent?

Separate question. That helmet is actually pretty old, being on its third bike. Is there a natural raging process (embrittling?) of helmet materials that requires helmets to be replaced after x time?

Andre Jute

And impact dent ix fatal to any possible protection from a helmet Styrofoam compressed is useless. It is USED to prevent fractures of the skull and being without any cushioning anywhere at all in the helmet renders it worthless.

Yes, there is embrittlement with aging of the Styrofoam but it is a LONG process.

I bought a Chinese helmet for $23 off of Ebay and it is the best fitting helmet I ever had.

I don't care about the money. But I like the helmet, a Bell Citi, designed for cyclists who sit upright, with bars higher than the seat, and Bell no longer makes it. The Citi is a super helmet with a visor, and a channel in which you can attach proprietary mirror, bug screens on its many, many vents, super fit, etc. I shoulda bought a couple of spares while they were still current production.

Thanks for the info, Tom.

Andre Jute
Correct fit is the most important feature of every component on a bicycle -- and its rider


This style was the inspiration for Citi:
https://centralsports.ie/Equestrian-Helmets-46/

Note: local vendor for you!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

It's not a bad idea, and my local equestrian store, from whom I buy the neatsfoot oil I use on my leather saddles and grips, stocks either the same or very similar helmets. But 444 grammes? And only 3 forward-facing vents?

One looks at these equestrian helmets and start to understand why a cyclist's helmet is a specialist item.

Now do something really useful and tell me you have some NOS Citi in stock in a choice of colours.

Andre Jute
Ideal helmet: filled with D30 mil spec impact-hardening plastic -- it works for my phone, so why shouldn't it work for my brain?

None here, that was a long time ago in helmets.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971