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Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 18, 01:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/

Cheers
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  #2  
Old December 4th 18, 03:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,855
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On 12/4/2018 6:06 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/

Cheers


Indeed. Six years ago this was startling:
http://www.globalfastenernews.com/20...ener-news-usa/

Now it's just every day all day.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old December 4th 18, 06:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,077
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:06:50 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/


Here's one of the best parts of that article:

"every carbon fiber product is a quality-control batch of one, and the finished outside shape tells you almost zero about what’s really inside..

I really like that phrase "... a quality-control batch of one..."

The further explanation was good, too:

"A frame can have hundreds of individual sheets of carbon fiber (called plies) of varying size and shape, which are placed in the mold in specific places in a rigidly defined order (called the layup). To make matters more complex, carbon fiber is unidirectional; its stiffness and strength characteristics apply only along one axis. To preserve those characteristics, a manufacturer must get the number, shape, and size of the plies, and their fiber orientation in the correct order, every time. That’s to say nothing of the actual grades of carbon fiber used, or the resin that holds the fibers in place and adds toughness and durability, or the sophistication and reliability of the manufacturer’s own production process."

- Frank Krygowski

  #4  
Old December 4th 18, 10:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 493
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 9:58:34 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:06:50 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/


Here's one of the best parts of that article:

"every carbon fiber product is a quality-control batch of one, and the finished outside shape tells you almost zero about what’s really inside.

I really like that phrase "... a quality-control batch of one..."

The further explanation was good, too:

"A frame can have hundreds of individual sheets of carbon fiber (called plies) of varying size and shape, which are placed in the mold in specific places in a rigidly defined order (called the layup). To make matters more complex, carbon fiber is unidirectional; its stiffness and strength characteristics apply only along one axis. To preserve those characteristics, a manufacturer must get the number, shape, and size of the plies, and their fiber orientation in the correct order, every time. That’s to say nothing of the actual grades of carbon fiber used, or the resin that holds the fibers in place and adds toughness and durability, or the sophistication and reliability of the manufacturer’s own production process."

- Frank Krygowski


Frank, all of that is true so to be perfectly safe you shouldn't fly in any of the modern commercial aircraft which have extensive use of carbon fiber in the airframe, wing sections and now the entire skin.
  #5  
Old December 5th 18, 04:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,077
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 4:40:26 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 9:58:34 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:06:50 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/


Here's one of the best parts of that article:

"every carbon fiber product is a quality-control batch of one, and the finished outside shape tells you almost zero about what’s really inside.

I really like that phrase "... a quality-control batch of one..."

The further explanation was good, too:

"A frame can have hundreds of individual sheets of carbon fiber (called plies) of varying size and shape, which are placed in the mold in specific places in a rigidly defined order (called the layup). To make matters more complex, carbon fiber is unidirectional; its stiffness and strength characteristics apply only along one axis. To preserve those characteristics, a manufacturer must get the number, shape, and size of the plies, and their fiber orientation in the correct order, every time. That’s to say nothing of the actual grades of carbon fiber used, or the resin that holds the fibers in place and adds toughness and durability, or the sophistication and reliability of the manufacturer’s own production process."

- Frank Krygowski


Frank, all of that is true so to be perfectly safe you shouldn't fly in any of the modern commercial aircraft which have extensive use of carbon fiber in the airframe, wing sections and now the entire skin.


Tom, if some discount airline offered tickets at 1/3 everyone else's
price because they used inexpensive Chinese CF planes, I certainly
wouldn't fly with them.

- Frank Krygowski
  #6  
Old December 5th 18, 04:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 365
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:58:32 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:06:50 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/


Here's one of the best parts of that article:

"every carbon fiber product is a quality-control batch of one, and the finished outside shape tells you almost zero about whats really inside.

I really like that phrase "... a quality-control batch of one..."

The further explanation was good, too:

"A frame can have hundreds of individual sheets of carbon fiber (called plies) of varying size and shape, which are placed in the mold in specific places in a rigidly defined order (called the layup). To make matters more complex, carbon fiber is unidirectional; its stiffness and strength characteristics apply only along one axis. To preserve those characteristics, a manufacturer must get the number, shape, and size of the plies, and their fiber orientation in the correct order, every time. Thats to say nothing of the actual grades of carbon fiber used, or the resin that holds the fibers in place and adds toughness and durability, or the sophistication and reliability of the manufacturers own production process."

- Frank Krygowski


But that is not only applicable to carbon fiber but to all cloth -
resin composite. The difference seems to be, primarily, that composite
bicycle frames are built to be light in weight rather then stiff or
rigid, or perhaps the term might be "strong".

Having built composite things - boat hulls and fittings - for ten or
so years I can assure you that a carbon fiber frame with, oh say,
quarter inch thick wall thickness would be "strong enough". But of
course it would also be "too heavy" :-)

cheers,

John B.


  #7  
Old December 5th 18, 07:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 493
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:42:29 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:58:32 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:06:50 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If you're like Tom and are thinking about buying a cheap Chinese knockoff of anything pertaining to bicycling then you might want to read this. When it comes to Chinese stuff it really is BUYER BEWARE!

This guy didn't even know he was getting a Chinese counterfeit item. (The price should have warned him)

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ake-bike-gear/


Here's one of the best parts of that article:

"every carbon fiber product is a quality-control batch of one, and the finished outside shape tells you almost zero about what’s really inside.

I really like that phrase "... a quality-control batch of one..."

The further explanation was good, too:

"A frame can have hundreds of individual sheets of carbon fiber (called plies) of varying size and shape, which are placed in the mold in specific places in a rigidly defined order (called the layup). To make matters more complex, carbon fiber is unidirectional; its stiffness and strength characteristics apply only along one axis. To preserve those characteristics, a manufacturer must get the number, shape, and size of the plies, and their fiber orientation in the correct order, every time. That’s to say nothing of the actual grades of carbon fiber used, or the resin that holds the fibers in place and adds toughness and durability, or the sophistication and reliability of the manufacturer’s own production process."

- Frank Krygowski


But that is not only applicable to carbon fiber but to all cloth -
resin composite. The difference seems to be, primarily, that composite
bicycle frames are built to be light in weight rather then stiff or
rigid, or perhaps the term might be "strong".

Having built composite things - boat hulls and fittings - for ten or
so years I can assure you that a carbon fiber frame with, oh say,
quarter inch thick wall thickness would be "strong enough". But of
course it would also be "too heavy" :-)

cheers,

John B.


The learning curve was pretty clear. They were building the early (heavy) carbon fiber bikes incorrectly and they were breaking all over the place. Those early Trek one-piece frames were famous for breaking. My Time VX weighs as much as my Basso steel bike. My Colnago C40 was much lighter than steel frames but not light by any stretch of the imagination.

My present CLX is 17.5 lbs without water bottles or flat kid.

My Basso Loto with bottle and kit weighs 22.5 lbs. The Pinarello 24.5 lbs.

A sport rider usually carries more than that difference in weight around on his stomach.
  #8  
Old December 10th 18, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,434
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On 12/9/2018 1:15 PM, wrote:

When I was a manager I was informed that I needed a degree to further my position so while I was attending community college I audited several classes at both Berkeley and Hayward.


Uh huh. So, did auditing several classes get you a degree? Apparently it
wasn't a degree in data analysis.

Are you telling me that John "looking something up" is as good as actual experience?


I'm telling you that if John used a reputable source, it's _better_ than
your "actual experience." And based on past discussions, I suspect his
source is reputable. The shortcoming of your argument (which should be
obvious to you) is that you are relying on a ridiculously limited sample
size.

Glancing into a couple classrooms just isn't a good way of getting a
nationally valid sample. My tale about the temporary blip in Indian
students was supposed to give a strong hint about that. I guess I should
have been much more explicit.

Or perhaps your pretending that having MORE Democrat billionaires in California hindering the common man is better from your point of view?


Why did you just change the subject again?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #9  
Old December 10th 18, 11:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,077
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 11:39:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 4:33:20 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Tom, your conversations remind me of the phrase "trying to nail jello to
a wall."

Get me some real data with properly cited sources. Until then, I'm not
giving credence to any of your off-the-cuff guesstimations.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I worked in the industry and you didn't.


Wow. You've found yet another thing to be wrong about! :-)

- Frank Krygowski
  #10  
Old December 10th 18, 11:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,077
Default Thinking about buying a Cheap Chinese knockoff or anything?

On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 12:42:29 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
You just make things up -- even when the facts are so easy to find. I don't get that. You're retired. You have all day to look things up.


Is Tom retired? I thought he was just out of work. He's complained many times
about people refusing to hire him.

- Frank Krygowski
 




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