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A few months waxing chain



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 3rd 18, 12:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 365
Default A few months waxing chain

On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.

If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/


The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in
a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when
motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in
a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to
change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel
while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I
owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier
with the original primary chain.

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels
are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like
everyone else.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them.


I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain
lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly
the opposite.

cheers,

John B.


No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old.


Not quite yet. But why do you keep changing the subject? You write
that "I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs" and I comment that "I really wonder
about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has
commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the
opposite."

Last time you started talking about the U.S. Postal Service, the time
before it was India and now it is age.

One does begin to suspect that you just don't know what you are
talking about and when challenged you are changing the subject in a
frantic effort to avoid admitting the fact.

cheers,

John B.


Ads
  #23  
Old December 3rd 18, 07:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,819
Default A few months waxing chain

On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 9:14:18 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
Snipped

Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3
chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km.

I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to
speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a
little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs.

I have cleaned the jockey wheels once or twice, and that is as easy as
holding a stiff brush against them while I turn them.

I don't understand this idea that using a wax based lubricant results in
hard to clean off crud. One of the key features of using wax is that it
is cleaner than regular wet lubes (oils).

--
JS


Not to mention that a wax lube job doesn't pick up all that nice really fine grit and turn your drivetrain into a very efficient grinding mechanism.

Cheers
  #24  
Old December 3rd 18, 12:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 365
Default A few months waxing chain

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:14:11 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/12/18 5:20 am, wrote:


I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd
just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these
expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make
cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain
rings off of the crankset to clean them.



Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3
chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km.

I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to
speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a
little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs.

I have cleaned the jockey wheels once or twice, and that is as easy as
holding a stiff brush against them while I turn them.

I don't understand this idea that using a wax based lubricant results in
hard to clean off crud. One of the key features of using wax is that it
is cleaner than regular wet lubes (oils).


How are you measuring chains? From pin to pin which ignores any wear
on the rollers? Or with the "new" Shimano gauge that is supposed to
take roller wear into consideration.

Given that you have worn out three chains and the cassette wear is
apparently negligible it seems that whatever you are doing will work
for me too :-)


cheers,

John B.


  #25  
Old December 3rd 18, 07:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default A few months waxing chain

On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 3:24:38 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.

If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/


The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in
a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when
motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in
a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to
change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel
while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I
owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier
with the original primary chain.

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels
are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like
everyone else.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them..

I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain
lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly
the opposite.

cheers,

John B.


No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old.


Not quite yet. But why do you keep changing the subject? You write
that "I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs" and I comment that "I really wonder
about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has
commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the
opposite."

Last time you started talking about the U.S. Postal Service, the time
before it was India and now it is age.

One does begin to suspect that you just don't know what you are
talking about and when challenged you are changing the subject in a
frantic effort to avoid admitting the fact.

cheers,

John B.


And I have to wonder about you because I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem.
  #26  
Old December 4th 18, 12:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,434
Default A few months waxing chain

On 12/3/2018 1:45 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 3:24:38 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.

If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/


The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in
a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when
motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in
a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to
change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel
while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I
owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier
with the original primary chain.

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels
are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like
everyone else.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them.

I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain
lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly
the opposite.

cheers,

John B.

No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old.


Not quite yet. But why do you keep changing the subject? You write
that "I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs" and I comment that "I really wonder
about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has
commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the
opposite."

Last time you started talking about the U.S. Postal Service, the time
before it was India and now it is age.

One does begin to suspect that you just don't know what you are
talking about and when challenged you are changing the subject in a
frantic effort to avoid admitting the fact.

cheers,

John B.


And I have to wonder about you because I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem.


Not me.

After a while, a tiny amount appears on the chainrings. It wipes off
easily, if it gets to bother me. And it bothers me only very rarely.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #27  
Old December 4th 18, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 365
Default A few months waxing chain

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:45:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 3:24:38 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.

If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/


The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in
a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when
motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in
a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to
change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel
while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I
owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier
with the original primary chain.

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels
are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like
everyone else.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them.

I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain
lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly
the opposite.

cheers,

John B.

No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old.


Not quite yet. But why do you keep changing the subject? You write
that "I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs" and I comment that "I really wonder
about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has
commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the
opposite."

Last time you started talking about the U.S. Postal Service, the time
before it was India and now it is age.

One does begin to suspect that you just don't know what you are
talking about and when challenged you are changing the subject in a
frantic effort to avoid admitting the fact.

cheers,

John B.


And I have to wonder about you because I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem.


Tom, apparently you don't read well as the three people on this site
who have been using wax for some period of time all have said, at one
time or another, how clean the sprockets and cassette are.

James, for example, just wrote that:
"Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used
3 chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km.
I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud
to speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a
little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs."

Think of it, 8,000 km - about 5,000 miles - and "no build up of crud".

Now you come along and say just the opposite...

It makes one wonder whether you know what you are talking about

fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality.

cheers,

John B.


  #28  
Old December 4th 18, 02:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,788
Default A few months waxing chain

On 3/12/18 10:23 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:14:11 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/12/18 5:20 am, wrote:


I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd
just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these
expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make
cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain
rings off of the crankset to clean them.



Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3
chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km.

I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to
speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a
little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs.

I have cleaned the jockey wheels once or twice, and that is as easy as
holding a stiff brush against them while I turn them.

I don't understand this idea that using a wax based lubricant results in
hard to clean off crud. One of the key features of using wax is that it
is cleaner than regular wet lubes (oils).


How are you measuring chains? From pin to pin which ignores any wear
on the rollers? Or with the "new" Shimano gauge that is supposed to
take roller wear into consideration.

Given that you have worn out three chains and the cassette wear is
apparently negligible it seems that whatever you are doing will work
for me too :-)


I ignore roller wear.

I have the chains hanging from a nail and measure 100 links which should
reach 50 inches. 1/8" is 0.25%. 1/4" is 0.5%.

Given that it is supposed to be safe to let chains elongate to 0.5%, I
can use the chains again before starting a new set.

--
JS
  #30  
Old December 4th 18, 04:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 365
Default A few months waxing chain

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 12:09:22 +1100, James
wrote:

On 3/12/18 10:23 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:14:11 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/12/18 5:20 am, wrote:


I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble
cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd
just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these
expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make
cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain
rings off of the crankset to clean them.



Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3
chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km.

I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to
speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a
little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs.

I have cleaned the jockey wheels once or twice, and that is as easy as
holding a stiff brush against them while I turn them.

I don't understand this idea that using a wax based lubricant results in
hard to clean off crud. One of the key features of using wax is that it
is cleaner than regular wet lubes (oils).


How are you measuring chains? From pin to pin which ignores any wear
on the rollers? Or with the "new" Shimano gauge that is supposed to
take roller wear into consideration.

Given that you have worn out three chains and the cassette wear is
apparently negligible it seems that whatever you are doing will work
for me too :-)


I ignore roller wear.

I have the chains hanging from a nail and measure 100 links which should
reach 50 inches. 1/8" is 0.25%. 1/4" is 0.5%.

Given that it is supposed to be safe to let chains elongate to 0.5%, I
can use the chains again before starting a new set.


Thanks for that. That is essentially what I've been doing using an 24"
steel ruler.

cheers,

John B.


 




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