New bike path

On 15/03/2018 8:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 1:16:28 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-15 12:31, Duane wrote:
On 15/03/2018 12:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/15/2018 11:23 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/15/2018 8:47 AM, Duane wrote:
On 14/03/2018 9:09 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:36:45 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

If you provide proper infrastructure
they will come:

That's the second time this week that I've cackled aloud
while sitting
at the computer.

I don't *do* that sort of thing.


I rarely use segregated paths but there is a ride I like
to do from my house in Montreal West Island area to the
old port. It's ~100k and really nice. About 80k of it
is on bike paths. These paths follow the river and then
the Lachine canal so there are basically no
intersections. Along the canal where the path crosses
city streets the path has under or overpasses.

Here's the thing. I take the day off work on my birthday
and do this ride with some friends because there's no one
on the paths outside of the commute hours. At commute
time it's too crowded. On weekends and holidays it's
packed.

So I guess my point is that if they make these things
people use them. In Montreal, a lot of people use them.Â
Whether or not they make sense for commuters is another
story. And group riding on bike paths is a bad idea in
any case if the paths aren't empty.

Most of us probably enjoy a segregated path that's
well-maintained, scenic, and mostly empty. Probably few of
us enjoy a MUP when it's seeing heavy use. And with good
reason! With widely varying users, narrow spaces and a "no
rules" environment, movements are often chaotic.

So Joerg should lobby for paths that will be unpopular,
because those make for the best riding. Of course, that's a
tough sell. Can you imagine asking for tax money for a new
freeway, by saying "It will be great! Hardly anyone will use
it!"

Nationwide, only a tiny percentage of these facilities can
be justified as shifting mode share from cars to bikes.
Despite the cherry-picked examples, most miles of MUP
connect nowhere to nowhere, for obvious reasons.

So almost all are linear parks, even though they're "sold"
as being transportation facilities. They should be paid for
from park taxes, not federal or state transportation tax
dollars.


Some citizens use and appreciate them, just not for cycling:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=assault+on...th&t=hg&ia=web


Well my point was that even though some of us don't use crowded
segregated paths, the fact that they are crowded indicates that many
people do use them.


Last Sunday it was a joy to see a very full paved section of the El
Dorado Trail from Placerville to Camino (California). It seems that the
New Year's resolutions of many people have stuck this year.

Yeah, we can all complain about having to slow down for kids, dogs or
slow riders. Yet for some reason cyclists who complain about that do not
complain if they spend minutes in slow traffic behind a crawling conga
line of trucks.

I complain if I have to sit in slow traffic, but the beauty of being on a bike is that I rarely have to do that, except where passing is impossible. Bicycles may permissibly pass on the right when safe in Oregon. I sit in traffic in the mornings, but I'm still making better time than the cars and passing on either side when possible and safe.


In Quebec there is not rider to allow cyclists to pass on the right so
they're restricted to the regular vehicle laws. On my commute there are
not many roads I take without a bike lane though so that helps get me by
the traffic. Where there are no lanes I sit in the traffic like the cars.


I see it this way: Every slow down is followed by an acceleration event
and that builds muscle. Plus I might get to pet a dog or encourage a kid
on a tricycle to keep on mashing the pedals. It means a lot to them when
an adult says "Good job!".


Bike paths in Quebec have a speed limit of 20km/h so doesn't allow for
much of an acceleration event. And anyway they're usually crowded
enough that slow downs are that sporadic.

Out of curiosity, do you have kids? Half of them will think you're a creep or just in their way. The other half might think you're mildly amusing. Kids are accustomed to hearing "good job" -- little Jimmy on the trike probably hears it ten times a day. It's not like he's going to ride over to his parents and say, "geepers, mom and dad, that creepy man over there said I did a good job! That makes me feel so good! It means a lot to me!" In reality, dealing with kids on trikes on a MUP is usually just a matter of giving them a wide berth. It's kind of like dealing with squirrels -- well, strike that. I'll run over squirrels.

It's chipmunks here. They're suicidal.


Linear parks are fine and some can be useful travel routes for bikes, but mixing bikes and walkers always results in a sub-optimal experience for both -- particularly when you have parents with walkers, dogs and kids on trikes (common around here) and sometimes steep grades. I walk and ride the same local trail, and descending bikes are a menace. I always take the adjacent road when on a bike.

The way I look at it is that the linear parks are pretty much not for
me. The people that fill them up seem to get along ok as long as some
group of MAMILs doesn't terrorize them. My club rides tend to avoid
paths. For morning commuters they're not bad as most recreational users
aren't out at 6am. On the ride home it's a different thing.

Same here regarding steep roads.