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#51
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A few months waxing chain
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 12:42:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 12/5/2018 10:35 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 12/4/2018 9:42 PM, John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:48:25 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:33:15 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: fantasy ~ noun* ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers Over the years I have spent many hours cleaning that wax residue off cogs and rings. I have disassembled and scrapped and finally used acetone to clean off the remainder until changing to Rock and Roll. Now no residue. But apparently you sat here with me and showed me that there was no such thing. Tom, I have to believe that you either don't know what you are talking about or simply a liar. I believe Tom. No reason to doubt his description. I've seen waxed chain systems as Frank describes, shiny and neat but I've also seen gear trains more encrusted with wax than the floor under The Virgin Mary's niche. And as I said in a slightly different context: My method is unusual. I don't remove the chain and soak it in a hot pot of molten wax. Instead, while my chain is still on my bike, I use a low-flame propane torch to warm the chain about 15 links at a time, apply the wax/oil cake like using a crayon, then reheat those links until I see the wax flow into the chain bits. I then backpedal and repeat. Here's the pertinent part: When the entire chain's done but still warm, I backpedal the chain while gripping it with a handful of paper towels. I think that gets a lot of excess external wax off the chain. Maybe othes who do the hot wax soak have too much wax caked on their chain? I don't know. If you use heated wax and simply pop the chain into the wax and leave it there for a bit the chain is heated to roughly the same temperature as the molten wax and if the chain is removed from the wax and simply hung up to cool there is relatively little wax on the outside of the chain. (But of course, this requires the chain to be removed from the bicycle.... or a very large pot :-) cheers, John B. |
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#53
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A few months waxing chain
On 12/5/2018 6:28 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 12:42:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 10:35 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 12/4/2018 9:42 PM, John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:48:25 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:33:15 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: fantasy ~ nounĀ* ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers Over the years I have spent many hours cleaning that wax residue off cogs and rings. I have disassembled and scrapped and finally used acetone to clean off the remainder until changing to Rock and Roll. Now no residue. But apparently you sat here with me and showed me that there was no such thing. Tom, I have to believe that you either don't know what you are talking about or simply a liar. I believe Tom. No reason to doubt his description. I've seen waxed chain systems as Frank describes, shiny and neat but I've also seen gear trains more encrusted with wax than the floor under The Virgin Mary's niche. And as I said in a slightly different context: My method is unusual. I don't remove the chain and soak it in a hot pot of molten wax. Instead, while my chain is still on my bike, I use a low-flame propane torch to warm the chain about 15 links at a time, apply the wax/oil cake like using a crayon, then reheat those links until I see the wax flow into the chain bits. I then backpedal and repeat. Here's the pertinent part: When the entire chain's done but still warm, I backpedal the chain while gripping it with a handful of paper towels. I think that gets a lot of excess external wax off the chain. Maybe othes who do the hot wax soak have too much wax caked on their chain? I don't know. If you use heated wax and simply pop the chain into the wax and leave it there for a bit the chain is heated to roughly the same temperature as the molten wax and if the chain is removed from the wax and simply hung up to cool there is relatively little wax on the outside of the chain. (But of course, this requires the chain to be removed from the bicycle.... or a very large pot :-) I still remember the first time I used paraffin, in 1976. I'd just read about it for the first time, and we were preparing to take our bikes to Britain for the first overseas bike (and train) tour. British Airways didn't require disassembly or boxing the bikes, but I thought this purportedly clean chain lube would make sense. I don't remember how I heated the wax. I do remember taking the hot, dripping chain outside and whirling it around to get excess wax off it. I don't remember any excess wax on the gear train, but I was disappointed with the performance of the pure paraffin. The chains did well until the first rain during that bike tour, then they squeaked. So I went back to using oil on that tour. It was a long time before I either generated or encountered the idea of adding a bit of oil to the paraffin, and it a little while after that I got tired of removing the chain and decided to try heating it on the bike. For me, this works best. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#54
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A few months waxing chain
On 12/5/2018 6:06 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 11:55:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 12/5/2018 11:49 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 12:16 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:26:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote: Frank - how often do you clean your chain and re-wax? How much off-road riding do you do? I think I re-wax maybe every 500 miles or so. With my method, there is no separate "clean your chain" step. I just add wax/oil mix using a propane torch while the chain is on the bike. The only cleaning is backpedaling the chain through paper towels once the entire chain has gotten it's fresh wax. These days I do only a little off-road riding. Until recently I was on the board of trustees of our local forest preserve. I would ride through the trails once in a while to see if there were problems, and I would cut through on my way to certain destinations. There are a few other gravel roads I would use on occasion, but most of my riding is paved. BTW, I had two hospital stays this year, and associated recovery. It's been a terrible year for cycling. I don't think I've done the chains since February. - Frank Krygowski Well, from my experience I cannot understand how you don't get wax build-up on the cogs and rings. This isn't some build-up, inside of 500 miles I have to take the cassette and rings off because you cannot clean them without scraping and then a final wash with acetone. I don't buy acetone to keep something highly volatile around the house but because it's necessary. It may be that final step, backpedaling the chain through a handful of paper towels to polish off the excess. But even the little bit that eventually appears on the chainrings is easy for me to wipe off. Maybe it's softer because of the small amount of oil I've mixed into the wax. For several weeks I have been completely unable to ride because of bronchitis. This is the worst I've ever had with coughing all night. sigh I've been fighting that for several years, and dreading winter because of it. Fortunately, it skipped me last winter. My fingers are crossed this year. But I think it triggered other problems - that is, antibiotics affecting my gut microbiome. C. Diff is no fun. Email if you want details. Sounds awful but at least you lived. Best wishes on a speedy recovery. The Great American Inscrutable Billing Machine ( a.k.a. 'health care') kills about 35,000* people every year with hospital-acquired infection. Not infection, mind you, but rather specifically hospital-acquired infection. Visit at your peril; financial, biological, existential. *I've seen estimates double that and higher but 35K is commonly cited. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 My wife babysits the grandkids and stuff that bounces off of them in school hits us. Our kid calls her kids "little virus bombs." -- - Frank Krygowski |
#55
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A few months waxing chain
On 12/5/2018 6:17 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2018 13:55:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 12/5/2018 11:49 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 12:16 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:26:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote: Frank - how often do you clean your chain and re-wax? How much off-road riding do you do? I think I re-wax maybe every 500 miles or so. With my method, there is no separate "clean your chain" step. I just add wax/oil mix using a propane torch while the chain is on the bike. The only cleaning is backpedaling the chain through paper towels once the entire chain has gotten it's fresh wax. These days I do only a little off-road riding. Until recently I was on the board of trustees of our local forest preserve. I would ride through the trails once in a while to see if there were problems, and I would cut through on my way to certain destinations. There are a few other gravel roads I would use on occasion, but most of my riding is paved. BTW, I had two hospital stays this year, and associated recovery. It's been a terrible year for cycling. I don't think I've done the chains since February. - Frank Krygowski Well, from my experience I cannot understand how you don't get wax build-up on the cogs and rings. This isn't some build-up, inside of 500 miles I have to take the cassette and rings off because you cannot clean them without scraping and then a final wash with acetone. I don't buy acetone to keep something highly volatile around the house but because it's necessary. It may be that final step, backpedaling the chain through a handful of paper towels to polish off the excess. But even the little bit that eventually appears on the chainrings is easy for me to wipe off. Maybe it's softer because of the small amount of oil I've mixed into the wax. For several weeks I have been completely unable to ride because of bronchitis. This is the worst I've ever had with coughing all night. sigh I've been fighting that for several years, and dreading winter because of it. Fortunately, it skipped me last winter. My fingers are crossed this year. But I think it triggered other problems - that is, antibiotics affecting my gut microbiome. C. Diff is no fun. Email if you want details. Sounds awful but at least you lived. Best wishes on a speedy recovery. The Great American Inscrutable Billing Machine ( a.k.a. 'health care') kills about 35,000* people every year with hospital-acquired infection. Not infection, mind you, but rather specifically hospital-acquired infection. Visit at your peril; financial, biological, existential. *I've seen estimates double that and higher but 35K is commonly cited. Simply quoting a number doesn't give an accurate view of the problem, however, in terms of deaths due to health care per 100,000 of population the U.S. leads the pack with 826/100,000 in 2013 while in comparison Japan had 598/100,000. See https://tinyurl.com/ybaq8vx5 From the same site the number of USians who have "have experienced medical, medication, or lab errors or delays in past two years" is 22% while an average of comparative countries is 16% with the U.K. having only 8%. In addition total health expenditures per capita, U.S. dollars, PPP adjusted, 2016, is the highest in the world. An average of comparable countries is approximately half of what costs are in the U.S. See: https://tinyurl.com/yaavfq6p There are other problems as well, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs -- - Frank Krygowski |
#56
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A few months waxing chain
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#57
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A few months waxing chain
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 19:01:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 12/5/2018 6:28 PM, John B. slocomb wrote: On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 12:42:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 10:35 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 12/4/2018 9:42 PM, John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:48:25 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:33:15 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: fantasy ~ noun* ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers Over the years I have spent many hours cleaning that wax residue off cogs and rings. I have disassembled and scrapped and finally used acetone to clean off the remainder until changing to Rock and Roll. Now no residue. But apparently you sat here with me and showed me that there was no such thing. Tom, I have to believe that you either don't know what you are talking about or simply a liar. I believe Tom. No reason to doubt his description. I've seen waxed chain systems as Frank describes, shiny and neat but I've also seen gear trains more encrusted with wax than the floor under The Virgin Mary's niche. And as I said in a slightly different context: My method is unusual. I don't remove the chain and soak it in a hot pot of molten wax. Instead, while my chain is still on my bike, I use a low-flame propane torch to warm the chain about 15 links at a time, apply the wax/oil cake like using a crayon, then reheat those links until I see the wax flow into the chain bits. I then backpedal and repeat. Here's the pertinent part: When the entire chain's done but still warm, I backpedal the chain while gripping it with a handful of paper towels. I think that gets a lot of excess external wax off the chain. Maybe othes who do the hot wax soak have too much wax caked on their chain? I don't know. If you use heated wax and simply pop the chain into the wax and leave it there for a bit the chain is heated to roughly the same temperature as the molten wax and if the chain is removed from the wax and simply hung up to cool there is relatively little wax on the outside of the chain. (But of course, this requires the chain to be removed from the bicycle.... or a very large pot :-) I still remember the first time I used paraffin, in 1976. I'd just read about it for the first time, and we were preparing to take our bikes to Britain for the first overseas bike (and train) tour. British Airways didn't require disassembly or boxing the bikes, but I thought this purportedly clean chain lube would make sense. I don't remember how I heated the wax. I do remember taking the hot, dripping chain outside and whirling it around to get excess wax off it. I don't remember any excess wax on the gear train, but I was disappointed with the performance of the pure paraffin. The chains did well until the first rain during that bike tour, then they squeaked. So I went back to using oil on that tour. It was a long time before I either generated or encountered the idea of adding a bit of oil to the paraffin, and it a little while after that I got tired of removing the chain and decided to try heating it on the bike. For me, this works best. I use a little bee's wax, probably less then 25% with the idea of making the paraffin a bit more flexible, and I add a large scoop of something called "Super Lube", a light grease that contains PTFE. I have an electrical heated Wok that holds probably two pounds of the mix and has a thermostat. I take the chain off and measure it and then just drop it in the pot. After the thermostat has cycled two or three times I fish the chain out,with a hook, and hold it over the pot until the dripping is pretty well stopped and then hanging it up to cool. There doesn't seem to be much wear, the chain doesn't squeak when riding in the rain and the sprockets don't get dirty - there is a very light wax coating on both the cassette cogs and the crank sprocket but it seems to just clear wax, no noticeable dirt at all. cheers, John B. |
#58
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A few months waxing chain
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 3:19:30 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 09:17:24 -0800 (PST), wrote: And after your other comments I have to think that you're a blithering idiot. So after changing the subject every time that anyone challenges you, you ale now reduced to insults to prove your point. cheers, John B. I am not changing the subject. I am identifying the problem and you seem to find that insulting. |
#59
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A few months waxing chain
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 7:40:50 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/5/2018 6:17 PM, John B. slocomb wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2018 13:55:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 12/5/2018 11:49 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 12:16 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:26:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote: Frank - how often do you clean your chain and re-wax? How much off-road riding do you do? I think I re-wax maybe every 500 miles or so. With my method, there is no separate "clean your chain" step. I just add wax/oil mix using a propane torch while the chain is on the bike. The only cleaning is backpedaling the chain through paper towels once the entire chain has gotten it's fresh wax. These days I do only a little off-road riding. Until recently I was on the board of trustees of our local forest preserve. I would ride through the trails once in a while to see if there were problems, and I would cut through on my way to certain destinations. There are a few other gravel roads I would use on occasion, but most of my riding is paved. BTW, I had two hospital stays this year, and associated recovery. It's been a terrible year for cycling. I don't think I've done the chains since February. - Frank Krygowski Well, from my experience I cannot understand how you don't get wax build-up on the cogs and rings. This isn't some build-up, inside of 500 miles I have to take the cassette and rings off because you cannot clean them without scraping and then a final wash with acetone. I don't buy acetone to keep something highly volatile around the house but because it's necessary. It may be that final step, backpedaling the chain through a handful of paper towels to polish off the excess. But even the little bit that eventually appears on the chainrings is easy for me to wipe off. Maybe it's softer because of the small amount of oil I've mixed into the wax. For several weeks I have been completely unable to ride because of bronchitis. This is the worst I've ever had with coughing all night. sigh I've been fighting that for several years, and dreading winter because of it. Fortunately, it skipped me last winter. My fingers are crossed this year. But I think it triggered other problems - that is, antibiotics affecting my gut microbiome. C. Diff is no fun. Email if you want details. Sounds awful but at least you lived. Best wishes on a speedy recovery. The Great American Inscrutable Billing Machine ( a.k.a. 'health care') kills about 35,000* people every year with hospital-acquired infection. Not infection, mind you, but rather specifically hospital-acquired infection. Visit at your peril; financial, biological, existential. *I've seen estimates double that and higher but 35K is commonly cited. Simply quoting a number doesn't give an accurate view of the problem, however, in terms of deaths due to health care per 100,000 of population the U.S. leads the pack with 826/100,000 in 2013 while in comparison Japan had 598/100,000. See https://tinyurl.com/ybaq8vx5 From the same site the number of USians who have "have experienced medical, medication, or lab errors or delays in past two years" is 22% while an average of comparative countries is 16% with the U.K. having only 8%. In addition total health expenditures per capita, U.S. dollars, PPP adjusted, 2016, is the highest in the world. An average of comparable countries is approximately half of what costs are in the U.S. See: https://tinyurl.com/yaavfq6p There are other problems as well, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs -- - Frank Krygowski He did a good job of describing the problems and didn't identify their sources. The destruction of this country is at the hands of the millennial generation to who the word, "no", has never been uttered. They actually believe that they are entitled to do anything they want to do and if anyone stands in their way it is because they are evil and not because the millennial is wrong. Look at people like Slocum who judges value as the price of an object or Jay who lives in a town where people will **** in the doorway of a business while people walk by ignoring it. The entire downtown of Portland smells like **** and people there treat it as normal. California politics is so corrupt that it would take multiple firing squads months to finish off those who prosper at public expense. California has 77 billionaires and 3 of them are Republicans. Why? Because when you have that sort of money you can pretend to come from the people while looking down from your spacious gated communities in the hills and with their private police forces. |
#60
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A few months waxing chain
On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 9:40:04 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 7:40:50 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 6:17 PM, John B. slocomb wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2018 13:55:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 12/5/2018 11:49 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/5/2018 12:16 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 7:26:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote: Frank - how often do you clean your chain and re-wax? How much off-road riding do you do? I think I re-wax maybe every 500 miles or so. With my method, there is no separate "clean your chain" step. I just add wax/oil mix using a propane torch while the chain is on the bike. The only cleaning is backpedaling the chain through paper towels once the entire chain has gotten it's fresh wax. These days I do only a little off-road riding. Until recently I was on the board of trustees of our local forest preserve. I would ride through the trails once in a while to see if there were problems, and I would cut through on my way to certain destinations. There are a few other gravel roads I would use on occasion, but most of my riding is paved. BTW, I had two hospital stays this year, and associated recovery. It's been a terrible year for cycling. I don't think I've done the chains since February. - Frank Krygowski Well, from my experience I cannot understand how you don't get wax build-up on the cogs and rings. This isn't some build-up, inside of 500 miles I have to take the cassette and rings off because you cannot clean them without scraping and then a final wash with acetone. I don't buy acetone to keep something highly volatile around the house but because it's necessary. It may be that final step, backpedaling the chain through a handful of paper towels to polish off the excess. But even the little bit that eventually appears on the chainrings is easy for me to wipe off. Maybe it's softer because of the small amount of oil I've mixed into the wax. For several weeks I have been completely unable to ride because of bronchitis. This is the worst I've ever had with coughing all night. sigh I've been fighting that for several years, and dreading winter because of it. Fortunately, it skipped me last winter. My fingers are crossed this year. But I think it triggered other problems - that is, antibiotics affecting my gut microbiome. C. Diff is no fun. Email if you want details. Sounds awful but at least you lived. Best wishes on a speedy recovery. The Great American Inscrutable Billing Machine ( a.k.a. 'health care') kills about 35,000* people every year with hospital-acquired infection. Not infection, mind you, but rather specifically hospital-acquired infection. Visit at your peril; financial, biological, existential. *I've seen estimates double that and higher but 35K is commonly cited. Simply quoting a number doesn't give an accurate view of the problem, however, in terms of deaths due to health care per 100,000 of population the U.S. leads the pack with 826/100,000 in 2013 while in comparison Japan had 598/100,000. See https://tinyurl.com/ybaq8vx5 From the same site the number of USians who have "have experienced medical, medication, or lab errors or delays in past two years" is 22% while an average of comparative countries is 16% with the U.K. having only 8%. In addition total health expenditures per capita, U.S. dollars, PPP adjusted, 2016, is the highest in the world. An average of comparable countries is approximately half of what costs are in the U.S. See: https://tinyurl.com/yaavfq6p There are other problems as well, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs -- - Frank Krygowski He did a good job of describing the problems and didn't identify their sources. The destruction of this country is at the hands of the millennial generation to who the word, "no", has never been uttered. They actually believe that they are entitled to do anything they want to do and if anyone stands in their way it is because they are evil and not because the millennial is wrong. Look at people like Slocum who judges value as the price of an object or Jay who lives in a town where people will **** in the doorway of a business while people walk by ignoring it. The entire downtown of Portland smells like **** and people there treat it as normal. Wow, medication time. Have you even been to Portland? And why are you so angry? With your massive earnings in the stock market and the Trump tax break, I would think you'd be living like a king, totally unconcerned about the incontinent heathens in Portland. With the new big China deal, you'll be buying those cheap Chinese wheels for $5-10. Korea . . . managed! Be happy. Don't worry! -- Jay Beattie. |
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