Chinese Carbon Wheelset

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 12:17:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 11:55:46 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:26:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 11:16:36 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 2:39:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 11:36:31 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 2:18:05 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 25/8/19 5:18 am, Tom Kunich wrote:


I have never used "carbon paste" for anything and can't imagine why.


Imagine harder.

--
JS

Why? I have had CF frames for a long time. I've never even SEEN "carbon paste" let alone used it for anything.

Really? Google it, it has been around for ages.

Lou

Toothpaste has been around for ages as well and I sure as hell ain't putting it on my bike.

From someone who has a slipping seat post and an awful track record in breaking things I would expect a smarter reply.

Lou

So you don't own any of this stuff yourself but you know all about it?

Tom I own bike stuff you only can dream of. That aside it isn't rocket science even Jay knows about it and he is a laywer. When CF seatposts came around for reason you can argue about you got warned not to use grease to prevent seizing and/or squeeking and you get warned not to overtighten the clamp. With the limited torque sometimes you got a slipping and squeeking CF seatpost. The use of carbon paste took care of that. With CF seatposts we went through a learning curve and most of the CF seatpost sold today benefited from that learning curve and have quite a safety margin. The main advantages of modern CF seatpost isn't weight but comfort and aero.

Lou

lou, I don't dream of bikes or parts. If I want them I buy them. You don't have anything I want. Properly made seat posts don's slip in properly made seat tubes. I just installed a non-Colnago 27.2 mm seat post in the same place and marked it and it hasn't moved the tiniest amount. And though it is 50 mm longer it is lighter. That Colnago seatpost used to be in a Master so I assume that over the years it has been worn down. (the fact why you don't put an abrasive on something that may be moved over time) Since I threw it in the trash after two rides on the replacement I don't have it here to measure. But it appeared to be machined down from a larger size.

Did you ever tighten bolts to the breaking point? Or did you always use a torque wrench? If not why not?

I've been a mechanic since the fifth grade. I know how to work on all things mechanical.

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:00:54 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 1:16:36 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/25/2019 2:39 PM, wrote:


So instead of your constant bitching and whining about lightweight CF
components what do you suggest?
- you can only buy CF components/bike if you can show a certificate
that you are qualified to use and maintain them correctly?,
- ban all lightweight CF frames/components for all people except Pro riders?,
- weight limit of 2 kg for a frameset?,
- you can only buy lightweight CF components if you can ride an average
of 40 km/hr on flat terrain for at least two hours?
- a buyer of a CF bike has to read the f*cking manual aloud in the store first?

What I'd suggest is that the industry and the cycling community stop
pretending that every gram is critical, that every rider needs what's
being raced in Le Tour, that every new gizmo or fashion is an
unqualified improvement, that every rider who doesn't ride a bike like
Lou's is a stodgy "Fred" who deserves to be mocked.


How is that going to work in practice?

Lou


Actually, I think the problem is with the clowns that think anyone riding a
bike like Lou’s and isn’t in the TDF is getting ripped off.

I went through a lot of bikes up to and including my Tarmacs. Never been
pushed to buy a TDF bike. Jeez an S-Works Venge is more than $12000. You
don’t see lowly Spec Tarmacs in the tour. That’s just hyperbole.

--
duane

My Colnago CLX 3.0 is exactly that sort of bike. It is advanced without being fragile. It is a supposed Italian bike made in Taipei with British threads so that parts cost less.

I am not that impressed with the LeMond made by Trek out of Reynolds 853. It may be the tires and I'll change wheels to those which lower rolling resistance. Or it may be that I'm at the low end of my fitness cycle. It IS solid steering so that makes me believe I'm just weak end of cycle. For two weeks I was absolutely flying. Last Thursday I couldn't get out of my own way..

I'm having the Basso renovated and those are the three bikes I intend to keep and ride from now on. All else go.

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:00:54 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 1:16:36 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/25/2019 2:39 PM, wrote:


So instead of your constant bitching and whining about lightweight CF
components what do you suggest?
- you can only buy CF components/bike if you can show a certificate
that you are qualified to use and maintain them correctly?,
- ban all lightweight CF frames/components for all people except Pro riders?,
- weight limit of 2 kg for a frameset?,
- you can only buy lightweight CF components if you can ride an average
of 40 km/hr on flat terrain for at least two hours?
- a buyer of a CF bike has to read the f*cking manual aloud in the store first?

What I'd suggest is that the industry and the cycling community stop
pretending that every gram is critical, that every rider needs what's
being raced in Le Tour, that every new gizmo or fashion is an
unqualified improvement, that every rider who doesn't ride a bike like
Lou's is a stodgy "Fred" who deserves to be mocked.


How is that going to work in practice?

Lou


Actually, I think the problem is with the clowns that think anyone riding a
bike like Lou’s and isn’t in the TDF is getting ripped off.

I went through a lot of bikes up to and including my Tarmacs. Never been
pushed to buy a TDF bike. Jeez an S-Works Venge is more than $12000. You
don’t see lowly Spec Tarmacs in the tour. That’s just hyperbole.

I walk into shops and they try to sell me comfort bikes. I have to force them to upsell me. I got my Trek Emonda super-duper racing bike direct from Trek because I do work for them. Even they said "are you sure you don't want a Domane?" Hey, I want a super-fast race bike! I don't care if I'm old. My son can inherit it.

I love my Emonda. It goes to 11, and as I was riding over hill and dale this weekend, I used every gear. Compared to my commuter pig, it's like an eBike. I should have gotten discs! Actually, the direct mount dual pivots stop really well, but there is the issue of rim wear.


-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/26/2019 11:25 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/25/2019 7:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I went to meet my neighbor for a ride, and he says, hey,
could you try riding my bike, it just isn't shifting well.
So I got on his bike (which is way too small), and it had
an odd shifting issue that didn't quite feel like new
chain/cassette issues. It was subtle and more like a
loose freehub body. So I tell him that, and he goes,
O.K., let me check. He pops off the cassettes, checks the
body, which isn't loose, but the cones on his Campy
hub/wheel are a little loose, so he pulls out his cone
wrenches, adjusts the hub, throws the cassettes back on
and pops the wheel back in his Pinarello. Shifts like a
charm. Took 8 minutes.

Yes, some people are good bike mechanics. Most people are not.

This will always be the case. Different people know
different things,
which is OK. But I think it's a bad idea to push actually
fragile
equipment to people who need rugged reliability a lot
more than tiny
improvements in speed.

Grrrrrr. Rugged reliability! You know, I've never seen
anyone force a super-light bike on someone, and I've been
to a lot of bike shops. My son sold bikes and let people
make stupid purchases, but they were usually double
suspended fat bikes and other odd-ball bikes. He worked
in Specialized and Trek shops, and I don't recall one
instance of him forcing an S-Works Tarmac on some
unsuspecting old lady or a Madone.

I'm not accusing (most) bike shop people of pushing Madones
on old ladies... even though I had a friend who decided to
get into biking at about age 65, and was sold a similar
bike. I suspect the guy's (much younger) cyclist girl friend
was responsible for the bad choice, but the shop certainly
abetted the decision. (The guy gave up riding after a few
months.)

But I think the industry does tend to promote unneeded
sophistication and, in some cases, fragility. It's parallel
to the auto industry pushing SUVs - each unit is much more
profitable.

It's not just carbon fiber. How about gearing? Only a
microscopic percentage of cyclists get any benefit out of
more than 8 rear cogs. Everyone with 9, and especially 10 or
11, pay for more expensive parts that are less failure
tolerant and wear quicker.

How about all the bottom bracket standards we've (or rather,
you've) gone through? Each one intended to be lighter and
stiffer - and weirder. Some consumers are now left up the
creek without a crank.

We've been around and around about road discs. Yes, they
make sense for your rainy commutes, but they really don't
make sense for most riders. But hey, they are "in"! Why buy
a bike with rim brakes? Just because they work as well for
almost everyone, are easier to adjust, easier to repair,
cost less and are less fashionable?

Wheels: Ever fewer spokes, of ever weirder designs, in ever
lighter wheels. Do you remember days when spoke nipples
didn't crack rims?

I do remember, partly because I'm still using wheels like
that. I remember when all my friends rode aluminum or steel
frames, 5 or 6 or 7 rear cogs, square taper bottom brackets,
etc. We're older now, but we and even the younger riders are
no faster and ride no further now than in those days.

I think the major problem is that "what's best" is still
being defined as "what racers use." I think most bike makers
still promote that mindset. I think it's a disservice to
most bicyclists.


Here in rural Wisconsin, a good chunk of our local customers
would sneer at your prissy delicate futzy high-maintenance
machines, Frank.

Anything that's not a 2.125 tire width on coaster brake with
32" wide steel bars is greeted with loud derision and that
includes current Bianchi carbon bikes on my floor.

You often deride 'fashion', not recognizing that your own
fashion is a decided subset of cycling overall.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 12:01:48 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:57:09 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:47:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 8:48:27 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2019 9:58 PM, James wrote:
On 25/8/19 7:36 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 2:18:05 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 25/8/19 5:18 am, Tom Kunich wrote:


I have never used "carbon paste" for anything and can't imagine why.


Imagine harder.

--
JS

Why? I have had CF frames for a long time. I've never even SEEN
"carbon paste" let alone used it for anything.



Because you complained about a CF seat post slipping.Â* You wrote:

"In one point it again made that noise and it appears that it was the
seat post moving. Think that I'll throw away that Campy Carbon seatpost
and install an aluminum one."

So Tom is a case in point. He's got to be more mechanically competent
than most recreational cyclists. He's got decades of experience. But
even he doesn't know that carbon paste is recommended for many part
interfaces.

I think there must be tens of thousands of newbies who will know less
than that, and will over-torque or otherwise damage lightweight CF
parts, especially as CF gets less expensive and more common.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Rather than telling us another of your stories why don't you show us a factory recommendation for putting an abrasive material in between two surfaces.

https://lynskeyperformance.com/faq/

Q: What Grease is recommended to use with the frame during the build-up?

A:

Bottom Bracket Threads - Finish Line Copper Based Anti-Seize
Headset Cups - Finish Line Copper Based Anti-Seize (Tiny Bit)
Seatposts - Carbon Fiber Seatpost: Finish Line Carbon Fiber Grip Paste - Aluminum & Titanium Seatposts use no grease. Regardless of seatpost material and grease applied, we suggest pulling the seatpost out to clean it every 3 months to ensure you never have a seized seatpost issue.

I could locate more, but you're retired and can do it yourself.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suggest that you then follow your own advice and put an abrasive into your seat tube. Regardless of Lyskey's advice I would hesitate to put carbon paste into a Lyskey seat tube. While that carbon paste is unlikely to have any effect on titanium, it also wouldn't give you anything of value. On a STEEL or carbon fiber or even aluminum seat tube you are more likely to seize the seatpost rather than prevent it from moving.

I used fiber grip on my CF posts. Works great. Why would it seize the post? It's not Loctite.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/26/2019 2:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:57:09 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:47:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 8:48:27 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2019 9:58 PM, James wrote:
On 25/8/19 7:36 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 2:18:05 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 25/8/19 5:18 am, Tom Kunich wrote:


I have never used "carbon paste" for anything and can't imagine why.


Imagine harder.

--
JS

Why? I have had CF frames for a long time. I've never even SEEN
"carbon paste" let alone used it for anything.



Because you complained about a CF seat post slipping. You wrote:

"In one point it again made that noise and it appears that it was the
seat post moving. Think that I'll throw away that Campy Carbon seatpost
and install an aluminum one."

So Tom is a case in point. He's got to be more mechanically competent
than most recreational cyclists. He's got decades of experience. But
even he doesn't know that carbon paste is recommended for many part
interfaces.

I think there must be tens of thousands of newbies who will know less
than that, and will over-torque or otherwise damage lightweight CF
parts, especially as CF gets less expensive and more common.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Rather than telling us another of your stories why don't you show us a factory recommendation for putting an abrasive material in between two surfaces.

https://lynskeyperformance.com/faq/

Q: What Grease is recommended to use with the frame during the build-up?

A:

Bottom Bracket Threads - Finish Line Copper Based Anti-Seize
Headset Cups - Finish Line Copper Based Anti-Seize (Tiny Bit)
Seatposts - Carbon Fiber Seatpost: Finish Line Carbon Fiber Grip Paste - Aluminum & Titanium Seatposts use no grease. Regardless of seatpost material and grease applied, we suggest pulling the seatpost out to clean it every 3 months to ensure you never have a seized seatpost issue.

I could locate more, but you're retired and can do it yourself.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suggest that you then follow your own advice and put an abrasive into your seat tube. Regardless of Lyskey's advice I would hesitate to put carbon paste into a Lyskey seat tube. While that carbon paste is unlikely to have any effect on titanium, it also wouldn't give you anything of value. On a STEEL or carbon fiber or even aluminum seat tube you are more likely to seize the seatpost rather than prevent it from moving.


Bianchi specifies carbon prep paste in Bianchi carbon frames
with carbon posts.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

PTom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:00:54 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 1:16:36 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/25/2019 2:39 PM, wrote:


So instead of your constant bitching and whining about lightweight CF
components what do you suggest?
- you can only buy CF components/bike if you can show a certificate
that you are qualified to use and maintain them correctly?,
- ban all lightweight CF frames/components for all people except Pro riders?,
- weight limit of 2 kg for a frameset?,
- you can only buy lightweight CF components if you can ride an average
of 40 km/hr on flat terrain for at least two hours?
- a buyer of a CF bike has to read the f*cking manual aloud in the store first?

What I'd suggest is that the industry and the cycling community stop
pretending that every gram is critical, that every rider needs what's
being raced in Le Tour, that every new gizmo or fashion is an
unqualified improvement, that every rider who doesn't ride a bike like
Lou's is a stodgy "Fred" who deserves to be mocked.


How is that going to work in practice?

Lou


Actually, I think the problem is with the clowns that think anyone riding a
bike like Lou’s and isn’t in the TDF is getting ripped off.

I went through a lot of bikes up to and including my Tarmacs. Never been
pushed to buy a TDF bike. Jeez an S-Works Venge is more than $12000. You
don’t see lowly Spec Tarmacs in the tour. That’s just hyperbole.

--
duane

My Colnago CLX 3.0 is exactly that sort of bike. It is advanced without
being fragile. It is a supposed Italian bike made in Taipei with British
threads so that parts cost less.

I am not that impressed with the LeMond made by Trek out of Reynolds 853.
It may be the tires and I'll change wheels to those which lower rolling
resistance. Or it may be that I'm at the low end of my fitness cycle. It
IS solid steering so that makes me believe I'm just weak end of cycle.
For two weeks I was absolutely flying. Last Thursday I couldn't get out of my own way.

I'm having the Basso renovated and those are the three bikes I intend to
keep and ride from now on. All else go.


Just did three days of windy hills. First two days averaged 29 km/h.
Yesterday barely got 27. At one point I was pulling and rotated back. Got
caught in a gust and had a hell of a time getting back in. Quads burning
like hell. Like I told my friend, some days you’re the hammer and some
days the nail.

I think the main problem as we age is the recovery time. Maybe it’s just
that you need a break between. Recovery rides help if you can keep them as
recovery rides...

--
duane

jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:00:54 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 1:16:36 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/25/2019 2:39 PM, wrote:


So instead of your constant bitching and whining about lightweight CF
components what do you suggest?
- you can only buy CF components/bike if you can show a certificate
that you are qualified to use and maintain them correctly?,
- ban all lightweight CF frames/components for all people except Pro riders?,
- weight limit of 2 kg for a frameset?,
- you can only buy lightweight CF components if you can ride an average
of 40 km/hr on flat terrain for at least two hours?
- a buyer of a CF bike has to read the f*cking manual aloud in the store first?

What I'd suggest is that the industry and the cycling community stop
pretending that every gram is critical, that every rider needs what's
being raced in Le Tour, that every new gizmo or fashion is an
unqualified improvement, that every rider who doesn't ride a bike like
Lou's is a stodgy "Fred" who deserves to be mocked.


How is that going to work in practice?

Lou


Actually, I think the problem is with the clowns that think anyone riding a
bike like Lou’s and isn’t in the TDF is getting ripped off.

I went through a lot of bikes up to and including my Tarmacs. Never been
pushed to buy a TDF bike. Jeez an S-Works Venge is more than $12000. You
don’t see lowly Spec Tarmacs in the tour. That’s just hyperbole.

I walk into shops and they try to sell me comfort bikes. I have to force
them to upsell me. I got my Trek Emonda super-duper racing bike direct
from Trek because I do work for them. Even they said "are you sure you
don't want a Domane?" Hey, I want a super-fast race bike! I don't care
if I'm old. My son can inherit it.

I love my Emonda. It goes to 11, and as I was riding over hill and dale
this weekend, I used every gear. Compared to my commuter pig, it's like
an eBike. I should have gotten discs! Actually, the direct mount dual
pivots stop really well, but there is the issue of rim wear.



I don’t know about using every gear but I definitely appreciate my 11
speed. I’m loving the mid compact too. Rollers are my favorite and this
setup works well.

--
duane

On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:27:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Did you ever tighten bolts to the breaking point? Or did you always use a torque wrench? If not why not?

I've been a mechanic since the fifth grade. I know how to work on all things mechanical.

Goodness! You mean that you've had a job down the Ford Garage since
you were 11 years old.... and that's how you got all that money that
you brag about?
--

Cheers,

John B.