"Confusion reigns as states reverse course on 'essential' status forbike shops"

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/retail-news/2020/03/17/some-bay-area-stores-declare-themselves-essential-and-remain-open-despite

Mike Jacubowsky, who used to post in this group, is quoted.

He also has a letter to the editor in the latest paper issue but I could
not find it online. The web site is not updated with the latest issue
right away.

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 8:10:53 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/retail-news/2020/03/17/some-bay-area-stores-declare-themselves-essential-and-remain-open-despite

Mike Jacubowsky, who used to post in this group, is quoted.

He also has a letter to the editor in the latest paper issue but I could
not find it online. The web site is not updated with the latest issue
right away.

Don't you think that bike shops are essential? Even if just for exercise and not commuters there is absolutely no doubt that you have to have bike repairs made by professionals.

Since I have put one of my new bikes in the shop to have the Di2 wiring installed among some other things, it upsets me that the owner hasn't been to his shop since these shelter in place directives have come down. I think that this owner probably has a mother or some such to take care of but it is virtually impossible to protect people from a virus we are now hearing can exist on metal or glass surfaces for up to week. That means ever bottle or can to come in the front door is a source of infection. All you have to do is go to a supermarket and observe the preposterous lengths that they are going to force "social distancing" in the checkout lines while you can observe that every can and bottle and box and plastic bread wrapper has been touched and moves by dozens of other customers attempting to find the best out of a diminishing selection of whatever.

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy this specific type of virus, hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst symptoms in 8 to 12 hours and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not have the antibodies.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is limited.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait out
the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to
have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy
this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof
of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only
testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not
have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then he
can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be! This
is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the
transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and
showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing
with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is
limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.

On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait out
the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to
have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy
this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof
of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only
testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not
have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then he
can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be! This
is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the
transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and
showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing
with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is
limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President
mentioned it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed
hydrochloroquine, were underrepresented in Wuhan virus
positives. After noticing that anomaly, a French doctor
tried a small set with positive indications, followed by
others in other countries.

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured'
because so far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die'
test. But as was clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that
statement has been, claiming the protocol will needlessly
kill people, DJT is no doctor and so on. So I called an
acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no problems
after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that
it's neither new nor rare.

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do
not like the guy" would be much better than making things up.



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait out
the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to
have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy
this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof
of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only
testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not
have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then he
can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be! This
is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the
transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and
showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing
with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is
limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.



Left wing source, quoting a Democrat Party elected official:

https://www.newsweek.com/dem-lawmake...avirus-1496469

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:53:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait out
the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to
have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy
this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof
of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only
testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not
have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be! This
is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the
transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and
showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing
with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is
limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.



Left wing source, quoting a Democrat Party elected official:

https://www.newsweek.com/dem-lawmake...aved-her-life-
recommending-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-1496469

Again, another antedotal mention without medical proof.
Obviousy not a whacko christian otherwise they'de have stated that
reading the bible saved them

FWIW, the french study has been shown to have cerry picked tat data to
suport their hypothesis.
The wuhan data is also purely antedotal, and in the first place it
wasonly reported as helping with symptoms in mild cases and not as
preventative or a cure.

Reminds me of horehound; as an ammeliorate, the disease is often a better
choice.
The

On 4/7/2020 7:14 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:53:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait out
the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to
have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy
this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof
of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only
testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not
have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be! This
is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the
transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and
showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing
with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is
limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.



Left wing source, quoting a Democrat Party elected official:

https://www.newsweek.com/dem-lawmake...aved-her-life-
recommending-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-1496469

Again, another antedotal mention without medical proof.
Obviousy not a whacko christian otherwise they'de have stated that
reading the bible saved them

FWIW, the french study has been shown to have cerry picked tat data to
suport their hypothesis.
The wuhan data is also purely antedotal, and in the first place it
wasonly reported as helping with symptoms in mild cases and not as
preventative or a cure.

Reminds me of horehound; as an ammeliorate, the disease is often a better
choice.
The


I agree with you. These are anecdotes but there aren't
anecdotes of harm and as I've written frequently lately,
we'll know a lot more in a couple of years.

That said, for a guy who cannot breathe now, waiting a few
years for a more full understanding is a poor choice.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait out
the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear to
have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does destroy
this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have proof
of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're only
testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do not
have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then he
can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be! This
is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use the
transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested and
showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are showing
with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of treatment is
limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President
mentioned it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed
hydrochloroquine, were underrepresented in Wuhan virus
positives. After noticing that anomaly, a French doctor
tried a small set with positive indications, followed by
others in other countries.

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured'
because so far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die'
test. But as was clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that
statement has been, claiming the protocol will needlessly
kill people, DJT is no doctor and so on. So I called an
acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no problems
after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that
it's neither new nor rare.


What you write is true. However the hydrochloroquine literature does
state that "an overdose may cause death".

But, of course, an over dose of many things will cause death :-(

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do
not like the guy" would be much better than making things up.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 6:22:54 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do
not like the guy" would be much better than making things up.

There's also "I like the guy no matter what he does." That too makes
hard to have reasonable discussions or evaluations of performance. And
in a democracy, we have a duty to evaluate performance.

- Frank Krygowski

Am 08.04.2020 um 02:24 schrieb AMuzi:

I agree with you. These are anecdotes but there aren't anecdotes of harm
and as I've written frequently lately, we'll know a lot more in a couple
of years.

Yes, anecdotes of harm go round as well, of people who took the stuff
without medical supervision and killed themselves with it.

It is *always* a bad idea to propose some medicine to the public rather
than proposing medicine to doctors who prescribe it to sufferers.