A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » UK
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 20th 09, 08:24 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Graculus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering that some
are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian involved in any
kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of all blame, and the
driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece

Mind you, this is nothing new for this government, for whom the concept of
innocent until proven guilty and transparent justice have all gone out of
the window with ASBOs, control orders, fixed penalty notices dished out by
police, the latest amendment of terrorism legislation making it illegal to
photograph (i.e. "elicit information") of the police unless you can prove
you have a good excuse.

If they're looking for ways to cut the budget, then such quangos are clearly
a prime target, with ideas which go completely against any common sense (oh,
sorry, I forgot that common sense was outlawed some years ago) or making
people responsible for their own actions.

"Barmy" doesn't even begin to describe this latest lunacy.


Ads
  #2  
Old September 20th 09, 10:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Graham Harrison[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them


"Graculus" wrote in message
...
It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering that
some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian involved
in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of all blame,
and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece

Mind you, this is nothing new for this government, for whom the concept of
innocent until proven guilty and transparent justice have all gone out of
the window with ASBOs, control orders, fixed penalty notices dished out by
police, the latest amendment of terrorism legislation making it illegal to
photograph (i.e. "elicit information") of the police unless you can prove
you have a good excuse.

If they're looking for ways to cut the budget, then such quangos are
clearly a prime target, with ideas which go completely against any common
sense (oh, sorry, I forgot that common sense was outlawed some years ago)
or making people responsible for their own actions.

"Barmy" doesn't even begin to describe this latest lunacy.


You missed the principle of the idea:

***"Such scheme would place the presumption of blame against whoever was
driving the most powerful vehicle involved in an accident, so they or their
insurers would be liable for costs or damages.

If a cyclist were hit by a car, the presumption of blame would fall on the
driver, while a cyclist would automatically be blamed if he or she knocked
down a pedestrian."***

I think there are many people who would argue that the cyclist running into
a pedestrian scenario would be something they would approve of.

I can see some interesting arguments about which is the most powerful
vehicle. For instance a horse versus a milk float?! I'm guessing the
milk float would be deemed at fault but I'm not wholly convinced.

The other issue is going to be insurance. It might be possible to make
adults take out insurance but children? I guess adults will have to be
responsible for their offspring (radical idea!).

Anyone know how it works in Germany and Holland (quoted as already having
legislation along these lines).

  #3  
Old September 20th 09, 10:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Adam Lea[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 783
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

Graculus wrote:
It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering
that some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian
involved in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of
all blame, and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up
the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece


It isn't like that at all, the principle is that the driver of the more
powerful vehicle would have to prove that they weren't at fault in an
accident.

As usual , the media tell people what to think by putting a certain slant on
it.


  #4  
Old September 20th 09, 10:50 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
JNugent[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,985
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up afterthem

Adam Lea wrote:
Graculus wrote:
It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering
that some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian
involved in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of
all blame, and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up
the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece


It isn't like that at all, the principle is that the driver of the more
powerful vehicle would have to prove that they weren't at fault in an
accident


....reversing the burden of proof, which has traditionally been that an
accused person is innocent *unless* proven guilty (of an offence) or at fault
(in the case of a civil wrong).

As usual , the media tell people what to think by putting a certain slant on
it.


If the burden of proof is reversed - and if the citizen is forced to prove
their innocence rather than their accuser having to prove guilt/fault, that
is all anyone *needs* to know. What can be said which mitigates the removal
of te presumption of innocence?
  #5  
Old September 20th 09, 11:46 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
McKevvy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

On 20 Sep, 22:29, "Adam Lea" wrote:
Graculus wrote:
It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering
that some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian
involved in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of
all blame, and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up
the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece


It isn't like that at all, the principle is that the driver of the more
powerful vehicle would have to prove that they weren't at fault in an
accident.

As usual , the media tell people what to think by putting a certain slant on
it.


So lets all blame articulated truck drivers.

McKevvy
  #6  
Old September 21st 09, 12:00 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving,uk.legal
Judith M Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,735
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:24:00 +0100, "Graculus"
wrote:

It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering that some
are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian involved in any
kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of all blame, and the
driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece

Mind you, this is nothing new for this government, for whom the concept of
innocent until proven guilty and transparent justice have all gone out of
the window with ASBOs, control orders, fixed penalty notices dished out by
police, the latest amendment of terrorism legislation making it illegal to
photograph (i.e. "elicit information") of the police unless you can prove
you have a good excuse.

If they're looking for ways to cut the budget, then such quangos are clearly
a prime target, with ideas which go completely against any common sense (oh,
sorry, I forgot that common sense was outlawed some years ago) or making
people responsible for their own actions.

"Barmy" doesn't even begin to describe this latest lunacy.



Absolute none-sense; how about if there is a fight in the street then
the tallest, heaviest person involved will be deemed to be responsible
by default and it will be assumed that they started it.

(uk.legal added)

  #7  
Old September 21st 09, 12:02 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
GutterCyclist
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

On 20 Sep, 23:46, McKevvy wrote:
On 20 Sep, 22:29, "Adam Lea" wrote:

Graculus wrote:
It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering
that some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian
involved in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of
all blame, and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up
the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece


It isn't like that at all, the principle is that the driver of the more
powerful vehicle would have to prove that they weren't at fault in an
accident.


As usual , the media tell people what to think by putting a certain slant on
it.


So lets all blame articulated truck drivers.


It is easier to blame the inarticulate, surely. What are they going to
say?

  #8  
Old September 21st 09, 07:39 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving,uk.legal
Doug[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,927
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

On 21 Sep, 00:00, Judith M Smith wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:24:00 +0100, "Graculus"



wrote:
It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering that some
are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian involved in any
kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of all blame, and the
driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up the tab.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece


Mind you, this is nothing new for this government, for whom the concept of
innocent until proven guilty and transparent justice have all gone out of
the window with ASBOs, control orders, fixed penalty notices dished out by
police, the latest amendment of terrorism legislation making it illegal to
photograph (i.e. "elicit information") of the police unless you can prove
you have a good excuse.


If they're looking for ways to cut the budget, then such quangos are clearly
a prime target, with ideas which go completely against any common sense (oh,
sorry, I forgot that common sense was outlawed some years ago) or making
people responsible for their own actions.


"Barmy" doesn't even begin to describe this latest lunacy.


Absolute none-sense; how about if there is a fight in the street then
the tallest, heaviest person involved will be deemed to be responsible
by default and it will be assumed that they started it.

"...Government advisers are pushing for changes in the civil law that
will make the most powerful vehicle involved in a collision
automatically liable for insurance and compensation purposes..."

Long overdue but unlikely to become law. Don't forget that the
lawmakers themselves are virtually all drivers too and that is why
vulnerable road victims are so often blamed for their own deaths and
injuries, i.e. for getting in the way of fast moving vehicles on
public roads.

It never seems to be considered that a driver is in sole charge of a
dangerous machine in a public place and therefore should be held fully
responsible for any damage caused by that machine. To allow such
drivers to legally run amok and kill people without punishment is
insane.

At least the motorist would have one consolation with such
legislation, if they are hit and killed by a bus the bus driver will
be to blame not the dead motorist. A satisfaction seldom granted to
the relatives of a dead pedestrian or cyclist.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.
  #9  
Old September 21st 09, 08:33 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving,uk.legal
Col Colt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

"Doug" wrote in message
...
On 21 Sep, 00:00, Judith M Smith wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:24:00 +0100, "Graculus"


Long overdue but unlikely to become law. Don't forget that the
lawmakers themselves are virtually all drivers too and that is why
vulnerable road victims are so often blamed for their own deaths and
injuries, i.e. for getting in the way of fast moving vehicles on
public roads.

Strange how this law won't apply to pedestrians hit by cyclists. In that
encounter the pedestrian is the vulnerable road user but the sick
psychopathic **** of a cyclist can always walk away without any punishment.
But then you don't give a **** about pedestrians, do you Duggie?


  #10  
Old September 21st 09, 08:40 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Alistair Gunn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 730
Default Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them

In uk.rec.cycling Graham Harrison twisted the electrons to say:
The other issue is going to be insurance. It might be possible to make
adults take out insurance but children? I guess adults will have to be
responsible for their offspring (radical idea!).


Many adults will likely be already covered by their home insurance.
Tesco Insurance will cover you for 3rd party claims up to a value of #2m
for instance.

(Though previous mentions of this concept have resulted in herculean
wrestling by some people attempting to 'prove' that "We will pay all
amounts You or any member of Your Family, become legally liable for as a
result of living in Your Home, *or for any other reason*" (emphasis mine)
somehow doesn't include cycling inside "any other reason".)
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is it OK to ram cyclists but not other drivers? Doug[_3_] UK 346 November 5th 08 10:18 AM
Why is it OK to ram cyclists but not other drivers? BrianW[_2_] UK 0 October 3rd 08 08:49 PM
Clear Channel hosts suggest swerving autos into cyclists. Bartow W. Riggs General 3 March 4th 05 01:09 AM
Clear Channel Radio DJs threatening cyclists, again! Corvus Corvax Social Issues 30 October 3rd 03 01:12 PM
Clear Channel Radio DJs threatening cyclists, again! A reply Burr Social Issues 1 September 10th 03 01:54 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.