Stronger rubber cement?

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
:had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
:think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume
than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most
part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB tires
are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2017-01-16 11:39, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks?
Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB
tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations for
bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.


One has to keep in mind the proportionality. A bicycle tire that
features a 3-ply side wall with 3mm thickness instead of the usual
paper-thin single-ply does not weigh 20 lbs.

The same goes for tubes. Everyone told me that bicycle tubes just can't
be as thick as those for motorcycles. Well, mine are. They do weigh over
a pound each for the MTB but that weight increase has proven to be well
worth it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-01-04 20:32, Phil Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017

[...]


I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.

It also has to become a pliable connection because those cuts are on the
side walls. Ever since moving to tire liners plus thich tubes plus thick
tire surfaces I don't get "regular" flats via running surface punctures
anymore.

A useful tip for storing cans or bottles of such materials (including
paints, as well) is to store them upside down.


Good point. At least I always make sure to turn them upside down for a
little and then right them again. That way any possible break in te seal
will (hopefully) remain "gunked".


That way, any slight imperfection in the seal around the lid will fill
with the glue, paint, or whatever, and dry to form a perfect seal,
which will preserve the contents.


Except that continued upside-down storage without a catch basin can
result in a nasty surprise when coming back from a vacation.


If you store it right side up, only the vapour will be seeping out of
any imperfections, and the contents will dry out.
The only downside is that it can get difficult to open, if the seal
was particularly bad to start with, as the glue or paint will stick
the lid on rather firmly. But that only happens in the case of a
container in which the contents would have dried out anyway, so you
haven't lost anything.


I got used to the fact that PVC cement, various glues and whatnot can
require a vise and sturdy pliers to open if it hadn't been used for a
few months. No big deal.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

thicker tire tread not thicker tubes 360 degrees.

try 2 layers of Kevlar liner

J with a math background should compare these forces as forward energy

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
:had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
:think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume
than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most
part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB tires
are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg does.

Cheers

On 17/01/17 04:49, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM


I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

Thanks. I should probably get something like that instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
think this is "normal".



I prefer pumping up tyres on my road bike every couple of weeks to
riding a slug.

MTB tyres can go much longer between pressure checks because the initial
pressure is usually about half that of road bike tyres and there is more
volume of air.

Car tyres don't usually have a tube. They are tubeless, and the thick
and heavy tyre makes the seal, and the initial pressure is usually much
less than that of a normal MTB tyre and there is a huge volume of air by
comparison.

--
JS

On 1/16/2017 3:43 PM, James wrote:
On 17/01/17 04:49, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM



I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes
they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the
running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

Thanks. I should probably get something like that
instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap
tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied
pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several
days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug
without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you
accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet
most cyclists
think this is "normal".



I prefer pumping up tyres on my road bike every couple of
weeks to riding a slug.

MTB tyres can go much longer between pressure checks because
the initial pressure is usually about half that of road bike
tyres and there is more volume of air.

Car tyres don't usually have a tube. They are tubeless, and
the thick and heavy tyre makes the seal, and the initial
pressure is usually much less than that of a normal MTB tyre
and there is a huge volume of air by comparison.


Hey Joerg here you go:
http://i.imgur.com/qSTfW05.jpg

(things found while looking for something else)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

James wrote:
On 17/01/17 04:49, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM


I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

Thanks. I should probably get something like that instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
think this is "normal".



I prefer pumping up tyres on my road bike every couple of weeks to
riding a slug.


I don't mind topping off my tire pressure daily just to be sure.
Admittedly a bit anal but part of my usual get ready for my ride routine.
The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.

MTB tyres can go much longer between pressure checks because the initial
pressure is usually about half that of road bike tyres and there is more
volume of air.

Car tyres don't usually have a tube. They are tubeless, and the thick
and heavy tyre makes the seal, and the initial pressure is usually much
less than that of a normal MTB tyre and there is a huge volume of air by
comparison.





--
duane

On 2017-01-16 13:09, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
thicker tire tread not thicker tubes 360 degrees.

try 2 layers of Kevlar liner

J with a math background should compare these forces as forward energy


Math background doesn't apply here, experience does. The thicker a tire
is in the side walls and the thicker a tube is on the sides the lower
the chance of a flat.

On my MTB I got sturdy tires plus tire liner plus old tube over the tire
liner plus thick tubes all around. The result is no flats except for one
(very violent) blow-out where chunks of tire flew around and ripped some
other stuff off the bike. Debris all over the place. It also caused a
five-cow mini-stampede.

Now I need something like this for the road bike. Thick tubes I've got.
Tires are the issue. Must be 700c*25 and not running a bit small like
the Gatorskin or supposedly the Nashbar SCR. I want to be able to get
them on and off without blue fingers.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-01-16 15:05, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 17/01/17 04:49, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM


I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

Thanks. I should probably get something like that instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
think this is "normal".



I prefer pumping up tyres on my road bike every couple of weeks to
riding a slug.


I don't mind topping off my tire pressure daily just to be sure.
Admittedly a bit anal but part of my usual get ready for my ride routine.
The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.


That's only a very pleasant side effect for me, not the core reason. The
main reason is that I never get flats with thick tubes despite several
required offroad stretches on my road bike. Unless a side wall blows but
I hope it's just a matter of time until I find road bike tires with
better side walls and correct size (not undersized like Gatorskins).
Took me almost two years for the MTB but now I am pretty happy there.
Especially since those also happen to be the less expsnive tires (from
Asia).

What good does it do to be 2% faster on a ride when you are 20 miles
from home and ... PHSEEEOOOOUUU ...?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/