Vino Positive - Astana Pulls Out

"William Asher" wrote in message
...
benjo maso wrote:


"Bill C" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 24, 6:39 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:


Is anyone wondering why Vino would resort to something as easily
detected as
homologous blood transfusions? Even if he was that stupid, how could
anyone
around him not inform him?

This is beginning to smell like a French Drug Testing
Laboratory.....

As much as I'd like that to be the case, the much simpler explanation
is personal stupidity as opposed to the massive conspiracy.


But what about a personal stupidity almost beyond belief opposed to a
small conspiracy?

How about a bunch of smart and very tired people late at night in a hotel
room doing things they aren't really trained to do making a big mistake?
Is that more believable than conspiracy or stupidity?


I'm not so sure. I can't imagine that Vino would have done a thing like that
without phoning his adviser dr.Michele Ferrari. Besides, yoy can be sure
that an experienced rider as Vino knows everything about doping. After all,
acoording to an ex-pro the latest about doping has become the most favorite
subject of conversation among riders, even surpassing sex and money.

Benjo

Tom Kunich wrote:

"William Asher" wrote in message
...
benjo maso wrote:


"Bill C" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 24, 6:39 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:


Is anyone wondering why Vino would resort to something as easily
detected as
homologous blood transfusions? Even if he was that stupid, how
could anyone
around him not inform him?

This is beginning to smell like a French Drug Testing
Laboratory.....

As much as I'd like that to be the case, the much simpler
explanation is personal stupidity as opposed to the massive
conspiracy.


But what about a personal stupidity almost beyond belief opposed to
a small conspiracy?

How about a bunch of smart and very tired people late at night in a
hotel room doing things they aren't really trained to do making a big
mistake? Is that more believable than conspiracy or stupidity?

I'm not surprised that you see the rest of the world as being as
stupid as yourself.

Tom:

Gliblet ijnor lokiy flotet partibunom. Labic god frothy whenius i an
n'tragetry ptunmoch. Got? Bernetly partupdy lasertwipnothulominion
flockulenling pratly. Smeglet gnotzorp plotunionous flot hrat it tiat
whangfert.

http://tinyurl.com/ymsu3g

--
Bill Asher

On Jul 24, 6:54 pm, "benjo maso" wrote:
"Bill C" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 24, 6:39 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

Is anyone wondering why Vino would resort to something as easily detected
as
homologous blood transfusions? Even if he was that stupid, how could
anyone
around him not inform him?

This is beginning to smell like a French Drug Testing Laboratory.....

As much as I'd like that to be the case, the much simpler explanation
is personal stupidity as opposed to the massive conspiracy.

But what about a personal stupidity almost beyond belief opposed to a small
conspiracy?

The guy's been oozing blood for a while now. What's the standard
procedure and where is the blood supposed to come from for a necessary
transfusion during a race? If there is no standard procedure, then
you wreck, and you're out?

R

More likely the labels got mixed on some bags of blood


Tom Kunich wrote:
"alex beascoechea" wrote in message
...
"benjo maso" wrote in message
...
But what about a personal stupidity almost beyond belief opposed to a
small conspiracy?
His racing style is stupid beyond belief. Maybe it is a general trait?

Well, you might have something there but nevertheless the idea that anyone
would be too stupid to get blood bags right has to be even dumber.

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Jack Hollis" wrote in message
...
According to the BBC.

Pre-race favourite Alexandre Vinokourov tested positive for blood
doping after winning Saturday's time-trial stage of the Tour de
France.

Vinokourov has asked for a second blood sample to be tested, but his
Astana team have now withdrawn from the race.

Is anyone wondering why Vino would resort to something as easily detected as
homologous blood transfusions? Even if he was that stupid, how could anyone
around him not inform him?

This is beginning to smell like a French Drug Testing Laboratory.....


Or perhaps a dumbass who labeled some blood bags incorrectly

benjo maso wrote:


I'm not so sure. I can't imagine that Vino would have done a thing
like that without phoning his adviser dr.Michele Ferrari. Besides, yoy
can be sure that an experienced rider as Vino knows everything about
doping. After all, acoording to an ex-pro the latest about doping has
become the most favorite subject of conversation among riders, even
surpassing sex and money.

Vinokourov is laying there not paying much attention with the IV in his
ankle or wherever all set to go, it's late at night, the blood bags were
late getting to the rooms since there were press people in the lobby, the
guy responsible is nervous and in a hurry plus he's not really trained to
be hanging bags, Vinokourov dozes off for a few minutes, maybe he wakes up,
sees the bag is wrong, half of it went in, stops the infusion, but it's too
late. An even simpler explanation is that Ferrari got confused with his
bag codes. Whatever it was, bags got switched.

There's no stupidity there, only fatigue and unfamiliarity leading to
error, or some low-level staff person putting the wrong sticky label on the
wrong bag. Stuff like that happens *all* the time.

Most conspiracies are silly to think of in practical terms precisely
because of human error. If you can explain something in terms of a mistake
rather than a planned conspiracy, go with the mistake. That should be a
corollary of the principle of parsimony.

(I would accept the explanation that some
WADA/UCI/UNICEF/UNCLE/SPECTRE/THRUSH/KAOS/CONTROL agent intentionally
substituted bags. That would make even more sense than some guy who is
making minimum wage getting careless on the job.)

--
Bill Asher

On Jul 24, 6:44 pm, Bill C wrote:
On Jul 24, 6:39 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:



Is anyone wondering why Vino would resort to something as easily detected as
homologous blood transfusions? Even if he was that stupid, how could anyone
around him not inform him?

This is beginning to smell like a French Drug Testing Laboratory.....

As much as I'd like that to be the case, the much simpler explanation
is personal stupidity as opposed to the massive conspiracy.
Bill C

Ah thats ok then.....Just stupidity.

There is not a rider in that field who has not doped at some point.

Blame it on the French.

They caught this latest guy, last years guy and they caught Lance.

One day someone from Discovery will spill the beans. When they need
the cash.

"Jack Hollis" wrote in message
...
According to the BBC.

Pre-race favourite Alexandre Vinokourov tested positive for blood
doping after winning Saturday's time-trial stage of the Tour de
France.

Vinokourov has asked for a second blood sample to be tested, but his
Astana team have now withdrawn from the race.

Astana said two distinct types of red blood cells were found in
Vinokourov's sample indicating he had had a blood transfusion before
Saturday's stage.

If Vinokourov's B-sample also tests positive he faces a two-year ban.

Astana manager Marc Biver said: "It will be analysed before the end of
the week.

"Vino denies any blood manipulation. He says after his crash on July
12, there may be blood anomalies.

Vinokourov was hotly tipped for this year's title but lost time in a
bad crash on stage five and slipped further back in the stages in the
Alps.

But he looked back to his best in a dominant time-trial on Saturday
and, although he dropped out of overall contention with a disastrous
display on Sunday, he won another arduous mountain stage on Monday.

As soon as he went from one extreme, losing almost half an hour in one day,
to another where he wiped the field the very next day.. i was thinking
Landis all over again
I thought it seemed obvious enough to compare the two, but i feared this
newbie would be pounced on, upon posting such observations.

Now it appears Evans should at least finish on the podium

On Jul 24, 8:00 pm, chester wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
"Jack Hollis" wrote in message
.. .
According to the BBC.

Pre-race favourite Alexandre Vinokourov tested positive for blood
doping after winning Saturday's time-trial stage of the Tour de
France.

Vinokourov has asked for a second blood sample to be tested, but his
Astana team have now withdrawn from the race.

Is anyone wondering why Vino would resort to something as easily detected as
homologous blood transfusions? Even if he was that stupid, how could anyone
around him not inform him?

This is beginning to smell like a French Drug Testing Laboratory.....

Or perhaps a dumbass who labeled some blood bags incorrectly- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah the cheating **** probably used Klotens blood.

Its stupid to suggest the others in the team and management didnt
know..

Now many are comparing Vino with Floyd from last year and the doping. I am
putting out a different idea. Both Floyd and Vino are riding BMC bikes.
Both had great rides and then lost steam and suddenly came out like a rocket
was up their ass. The one thing both had in common BMC road bikes. Hmm maybe
it's the bikes. We need to test the bike maybe that is what is causing the
performance issue and the doping problem. It's a secret conspiracy

Any thoughts?



"Jack Hollis" wrote in message
...
According to the BBC.

Pre-race favourite Alexandre Vinokourov tested positive for blood
doping after winning Saturday's time-trial stage of the Tour de
France.

Vinokourov has asked for a second blood sample to be tested, but his
Astana team have now withdrawn from the race.

Astana said two distinct types of red blood cells were found in
Vinokourov's sample indicating he had had a blood transfusion before
Saturday's stage.

If Vinokourov's B-sample also tests positive he faces a two-year ban.

Astana manager Marc Biver said: "It will be analysed before the end of
the week.

"Vino denies any blood manipulation. He says after his crash on July
12, there may be blood anomalies.

Vinokourov was hotly tipped for this year's title but lost time in a
bad crash on stage five and slipped further back in the stages in the
Alps.

But he looked back to his best in a dominant time-trial on Saturday
and, although he dropped out of overall contention with a disastrous
display on Sunday, he won another arduous mountain stage on Monday.

Before their withdrawal Astana had been leading the team standings in
this year's Tour and had Andreas Kloeden in fifth place and Andrey
Kashechkin in eighth.

The organisers of the Tour de France invited the team to withdraw,
which was immediately accepted

Astana team statement

The team released a statement that said: "The anti-doping control on
Alexandre Vinokourov, which was carried out on July 21 after the time
trial in Albi, has tested positive.

"According to the ethical code of the Astana Cycling Team Alexandre
Vinokourov has been suspended from the team with immediate effect. The
rider has asked nevertheless for a B-sample analysis.

"Informed by the Astana management, the organisers of the Tour de
France invited the team to withdraw, which was immediately accepted."