Apparently all serious cyclists

wrote:
Chris who? writes:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shaving.html

I worked for a guy once that exclusively cited his own work for
reference. Not long after I left, the majority of his work was
refuted (correctly) by other guys who cited reputable third
parties and independent research.

I guess what I'm saying is: Jobst, if you want to prove your
point, cite someone other than yourself.

The reason to cite yourself isn't to prove a point, but to avoid
repeating the same arguments over and over and over.
Unfortunately, too many are not thus inhibited.

As you say, this is to save rewriting the same story every time it
comes up. That is the definition of the FAQ (Frequently Asked
Questions). I wasn't "citing" anything, only reducing repetition.
I detect a sense of injury with Billyboy's response. He failed to
notice that I didn't ask for volunteers of examples of wannabe pro
racers who blindly perform all these rituals.

Reads like a personal opinion based on antidotal information.

So? You can disagree with my opinion and find fault with it if you
like. That's what this forum is about. As you see the article is my
assessment of bicyclists who take shaving legs as a sign of belonging.

If you feel injured by the characterization, say so. I sense that you
shave for all the bogus reasons often claimed by those who shave legs.
I've fallen from a bicycle most of the ways one can and unshaven legs
was never mentioned nor were my legs shaved around the raspberries.
Broken collar bones and ones in the hand were also not affected, even
if I had shaved my legs.

I wrote that piece long ago because I had to listen to the excuses
from riders who were torn between being called effeminate for shaving
and wanting to look like a professional racer. Make up your mind.
We don't need no steenkin leg shaves!

Maybe that's the antidotal (sic sic sic) information Chris mentioned.

Bill "you're slipping, JB" S.

In article
. net,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

wrote in message
...
Chris who? writes:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shaving.html

I worked for a guy once that exclusively cited his own work for
reference. Not long after I left, the majority of his work was
refuted (correctly) by other guys who cited reputable third
parties and independent research.

I guess what I'm saying is: Jobst, if you want to prove your
point, cite someone other than yourself.

The reason to cite yourself isn't to prove a point, but to avoid
repeating the same arguments over and over and over.
Unfortunately, too many are not thus inhibited.

As you say, this is to save rewriting the same story every time it
comes up. That is the definition of the FAQ (Frequently Asked
Questions). I wasn't "citing" anything, only reducing repetition.
I detect a sense of injury with Billyboy's response. He failed to
notice that I didn't ask for volunteers of examples of wannabe pro
racers who blindly perform all these rituals.

Reads like a personal opinion based on antidotal information.

So? You can disagree with my opinion and find fault with it if you
like. That's what this forum is about. As you see the article is my
assessment of bicyclists who take shaving legs as a sign of belonging.

If you feel injured by the characterization, say so. I sense that you
shave for all the bogus reasons often claimed by those who shave legs.
I've fallen from a bicycle most of the ways one can and unshaven legs
was never mentioned nor were my legs shaved around the raspberries.
Broken collar bones and ones in the hand were also not affected, even
if I had shaved my legs.

I wrote that piece long ago because I had to listen to the excuses
from riders who were torn between being called effeminate for shaving
and wanting to look like a professional racer. Make up your mind.
We don't need no steenkin leg shaves!

I haven't read that in a while and won't go back and re-read it now. As I
recall I agreed with most of your expressed opinions and indeed can't even
believe that so many cyclists shave their legs. I CAN however think of a
really good reason for professional racers to shave their legs. Massage
REALLY tears the hair out by the roots if done properly and pros have
massages every day.

And at least at my age (which ain't all that far removed from yours) I can
really tell the difference in how well I pedal if I'm receiving massage
regularly.

But why shave and grow stubble? Get a wax job.

--
Michael Press

wrote:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shaving.html
I didn't ask for volunteers of examples of wannabe pro
racers who blindly perform all these rituals.

You can disagree with my opinion and find fault with it if you
like. That's what this forum is about. As you see the article is my
assessment of bicyclists who take shaving legs as a sign of belonging.

If you feel injured by the characterization, say so. I sense that you
shave for all the bogus reasons often claimed by those who shave legs.
I've fallen from a bicycle most of the ways one can and unshaven legs
was never mentioned nor were my legs shaved around the raspberries.
Broken collar bones and ones in the hand were also not affected, even
if I had shaved my legs.

I wrote that piece long ago because I had to listen to the excuses
from riders who were torn between being called effeminate for shaving
and wanting to look like a professional racer. Make up your mind.
We don't need no steenkin leg shaves!

The people who helped get me started put the #1 ("real") reason for
shaving as "belonging", indeed, but not as image enhancement. It goes
to being a rider who will take care of business in a pack, and not
cause accidents. Plain and simple. The other reasons that bother you so
much were given pretty short shrift, or winked at (as in: two pair of
shaved legs rubbing together. And yeah, when I shaved, my wife liked
it...)

"Pro wannabe" is a constant with you, Jobst. "Delusional" is another.
Doesn't give much credit to a lot of people who, after all, function
well enough in life to be able to race at some level of success while
perhaps having families, and making enough money to pay for their own
expensive bikes and gear.

Not much credit given for those who understand, say, the results of a
40k ITT, and aspire to be a good Cat II, either.

Princess and the Pea = it doesn't take much to give Jobst Brandt a pain
in his ass? --D-y

On 30 Jun 2006 21:34:32 -0700, "billyroll" wrote:


wrote:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shaving.html

Jobst Brandt

I worked for a guy once that exclusively cited his own work for
reference. Not long after I left, the majority of his work was refuted
(correctly) by other guys who cited reputable third parties and
independent research.

I guess what I'm saying is: Jobst, if you want to prove your point,
cite someone other than yourself.

He's not citing himself, he's just not typing it again.

Ron

wrote in message
oups.com...

"Pro wannabe" is a constant with you, Jobst. "Delusional" is another.

Another anonymous coward swings and makes himself look like an ass.

As a fairly newbie to cycling and curious about the benifits of shaved legs,
I shaved mine just to see for myself. Don't ride any faster. Haven't
fallen recently so I can't attest to the benifits there. My wife doesn't do
leg massages.

However, I did find one benifit. I avoid long pants as much as possible.
One hot day, I couldn't avoid dress pants, well I could have but my wife
would have killed me. Anyway, shaved legs under long pants are
significantly cooler and more comfortable. Yea, one tangible benifit.

As to serious cycling. When one rides to one's limit on a curvy downhill
with moderate traffic, one better be a serous cyclist.

Guys, thanks for the entertainment!

Mike

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
. net,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:


And at least at my age (which ain't all that far removed from yours) I
can
really tell the difference in how well I pedal if I'm receiving massage
regularly.

But why shave and grow stubble? Get a wax job.


Dilettante, real cyclists use electrolysis.

--
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)

Tom Kunich wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

"Pro wannabe" is a constant with you, Jobst. "Delusional" is another.

Another anonymous coward swings and makes himself look like an ass.

That all? Any discussion, or just a coupla name-calls and off? And
exactly how is that being brave?

Too bad about your memory inre the nom de ng, and not being able to
make the rules. I'm easy enough to find and of course you well remember
who I am in the first place.

Come on, if you want to dispute, it's just some electrons and finger
wiggling. No courage required. The "wannabe" and "delusional" comments
stand, and it's not only Jobst, either. But he invited discussion, IMS.
So, discuss already! --D-y

Don Freeman wrote:
"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
. net,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

And at least at my age (which ain't all that far removed from yours) I
can
really tell the difference in how well I pedal if I'm receiving massage
regularly.
But why shave and grow stubble? Get a wax job.


Dilettante, real cyclists use electrolysis.

I must be stuck in "Fred" land since I don't shave for 3 or 4 days
sometimes until my wife gets me to do the deed. It must slow me down by
a whole 0.1 MPH, and my longish hair another 0.1, wow, will that make me
slow or what?
Sheesh.
Bill Baka

"Bill" wrote in message
.net...
Don Freeman wrote:
"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
. net,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

And at least at my age (which ain't all that far removed from yours) I
can
really tell the difference in how well I pedal if I'm receiving massage
regularly.
But why shave and grow stubble? Get a wax job.


Dilettante, real cyclists use electrolysis.

I must be stuck in "Fred" land since I don't shave for 3 or 4 days
sometimes until my wife gets me to do the deed. It must slow me down by a
whole 0.1 MPH, and my longish hair another 0.1, wow, will that make me
slow or what?
Sheesh.
..
No but the possibility arises that it may have affected your sense of humor.