[OT] Where to find laws on the internet? Toys R Us Trying to shut down a site

Sorry for the utter and almost complete OT-ness of this post[1] but you lot are
always quoting bits and pieces from laws. Anyone any idea if the text to the UK
law relating to Trademark infringement and internet domin names is on the web?
A website I occasionally visit is under threat of legal action by Toy R Us
(http://www.ratzrus.co.uk/toysrus.htm), despite being non-commercial and not
about Toy R Us at all. We don't think that the trademark laws apply to
non-commercial sites but would like to make sure. Any other information would
be helpful if you've got it to hand - I assume this kind of pointless bullying
happens quite a lot.

Oh, to make it a bit on topic, my rat absolutely loves sitting on the handlebars
of my bike when I'm riding. It'll be wearing lycra next...








[1] If you're using OE then Tool, Message Rules, News, New. Then click the box
'Where the subject line contains specific words'. then select 'delete it'.
Click on the blue text at the bottom and type in [OT] (including the square
brackets). You'll never see another correctly tagged off topic post again :-)


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Suggest-

uk.legal

may be a better place to post this question.



Has your rat got a helmet?

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:17:51 -0000, Mark Thompson
(change warm for hot) wrote:


A website I occasionally visit is under threat of legal action by Toy R
Us
(http://www.ratzrus.co.uk/toysrus.htm), despite being non-commercial and
not
about Toy R Us at all. We don't think that the trademark laws apply to
non-commercial sites but would like to make sure.

It seems a bit over the top from them but maybe they find it easier to
pick on a non-commercial site. I notice from a quick google that there are
several commerial sires using the "r-us" idea selling everthing from
crafts to fm transmitters.

To bring it vaguely on topic there is a Bikes R Us in London though
Toys-backwardsR-Us also seem to use the term Bikes-backwardsR-Us for
subdepartments of their stores.

Do you know if they have taken or threatened actions against any other
companies or websites and what the outcomes have been?

Colin
--

It seems a bit over the top from them but maybe they find it easier to
pick on a non-commercial site. I notice from a quick google that there are
several commerial sites using the "r-us" idea selling everthing from
crafts to fm transmitters.

To bring it vaguely on topic there is a Bikes R Us in London though
Toys-backwardsR-Us also seem to use the term Bikes-backwardsR-Us for
subdepartments of their stores.

I think the Bikes R Us is part of their little empire - they've certainly
tradmarked it.

Do you know if they have taken or threatened actions against any other
companies or websites and what the outcomes have been?

Yep, but every one I've found has been fairly unhelpful, and also American.
They are still there tho, but I've found reports of lots of sites that have just
had to close down after receiving the threatening letters. They can of course
start up under a new name but they lose all their search engine rankings so
no-one can find them.


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Mark Thompson wrote:



They are still there tho, but I've found reports of lots of sites that have just
had to close down after receiving the threatening letters. They can of course
start up under a new name but they lose all their search engine rankings so
no-one can find them.

It seems rather unlikely to me that they could win, given how widespread
the "r-us" usage is and the complete absence of any overlap between the
nature of the sites. But that doesn't mean they could cause the site
owners a lot of trouble and cost them time and money defending themselves...

James

Mark Thompson wrote:



They are still there tho, but I've found reports of lots of sites that have
just
had to close down after receiving the threatening letters. They can of
course
start up under a new name but they lose all their search engine rankings so
no-one can find them.

It seems rather unlikely to me that they could win, given how widespread
the "r-us" usage is and the complete absence of any overlap between the
nature of the sites. But that doesn't mean they could cause the site
owners a lot of trouble and cost them time and money defending themselves...

James

Puts brain into gear for delving into dim recesses of long-term memory
(sound of rusty cogs creaking...movement starting)

A few years ago Toys-backwardsR-Us decided to get heavy with an animal shelter
(almost sure it was a UK one) which had the R-Us bit in its name. It backed off
in the end as it had a mass mailing attack from an awful lot of animal lovers
across the globe who snail-mailed, emailed, faxed and phoned and told them what
a bunch of silly arses they were to be picking on a small animal charity, which
in no way could ever be confused with the huge business that is
Toys-backwardsR-Us and if they didn't desist in their idiotic course of action,
they'd be losing customers... lots of customers. It worked. At least that's my
recollection of it... I have been known to be wrong on occasion, just don't
tell Vernon or Nathan, it'll *ruin* my reputation of being SheWhoIsAlwaysRight
;-)

Cheers, helen s




--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove dependency on fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o* *l.c**$*$om$$

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

nature of the sites. But that doesn't mean they could cause the site
owners a lot of trouble and cost them time and money defending themselves...

James

Puts brain into gear for delving into dim recesses of long-term memory
(sound of rusty cogs creaking...movement starting)

A few years ago Toys-backwardsR-Us decided to get heavy with an animal
shelter (almost sure it was a UK one) which had the R-Us bit in its name.
It backed off in the end as it had a mass mailing attack from an awful lot
of animal lovers across the globe who snail-mailed, emailed, faxed and
phoned and told them what a bunch of silly arses they were to be picking
on a small animal charity, which in no way could ever be confused with the
huge business that is Toys-backwardsR-Us and if they didn't desist in
their idiotic course of action, they'd be losing customers... lots of
customers. It worked.


IME it's not normally the TM owners that are doing this , it's the
lawyers ( Urghh spit!) that they have on a retainer. The lawyers keen to
show that they are earning their pieces of silver use a shotgun approach
, after all it's not their money they are wasting it's either the
clients or the victims. The client might not even know what the shysters
are doing until the end of the year when it's time to be paid for the
slime used, then the shysters say "look what good boys we have been!"
the only way to get the lawyers ( Urghh spit!) t oback off is to deal
with the client.

--
Marc. Please note the above address is a spam trap, use marcc to reply
Printing for clubs of all types http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk
Stickers, banners & clothing, for clubs,teams, magazines and dealers.

"Mark Thompson" (change warm for hot)
wrote in message ...
We don't think that the trademark laws apply to
non-commercial sites but would like to make sure. Any other information
would
be helpful if you've got it to hand - I assume this kind of pointless
bullying
happens quite a lot.

Write to the company and ask specifically which UK laws, and which sections
are being broken. I hate to sound negative, but I have seen a lot of
reports (primarily on The Register) which seem to suggest that that
trademark holders are being successful in their actions (I know it's
continental US-based, but I believe the beast of Redmond successfully
browbeat someone who had mike-rowesoft.com into handing over the domain [for
an undisclosed sum]). Companies (okay, to my certain knowledge I can only
point at ICI and Shell) employ people who have the sole task of examining
the various media, whether print, broadcast, network or whatever for any use
or abuse of any of their trademarks, and then to jump, both heavily and
heavyhandedly, on any infringement. Google have apparently formally
requested that dictionaries do not have the verb "to google" included - they
don't want to be hoovered up by the opposition.

url:http://www.cla.org/RuhBook/chp3.htm may have some more information, and
may give hope, but IANAL........

E

In article , Mark Thompson wrote:
Sorry for the utter and almost complete OT-ness of this post[1] but you lot are
always quoting bits and pieces from laws. Anyone any idea if the text to the UK
law relating to Trademark infringement and internet domin names is on the web?

http://www.patent.gov.uk/tm/legal/index.htm looks like a good starting point.
Of course it's possible you'll need a lawyer to tell what it actually means.

Sorry for the utter and almost complete OT-ness of this post[1] but you
lot are
always quoting bits and pieces from laws. Anyone any idea if the text to
the UK
law relating to Trademark infringement and internet domin names is on the
web?
A website I occasionally visit is under threat of legal action by Toy R Us
(http://www.ratzrus.co.uk/toysrus.htm), despite being non-commercial and
not
about Toy R Us at all. We don't think that the trademark laws apply to
non-commercial sites but would like to make sure. Any other information
would
be helpful if you've got it to hand - I assume this kind of pointless
bullying
happens quite a lot.

Hi Mark,

About this time last year, I received my first nasty "We're going to take
your right leg and your firstborn" letter from [former computer games giant,
now publisher].

First of all, it's extremely unlikely that any proper legal action will come
against you - you're not going to end up in court. What do you stand to
lose, however, is the domain. I would advise reading up on Nominet's T&Cs
for domain registeration and their dispute resolution service. Lots of past
case rulings to read up on.

I ended up having a bit of fun with my case, despite nasty lawyer tricks. If
you want to keep the domain, I cannot emphasise enough that you watch what
you write to them and have a friend check through every piece of
correspondance twice. If you'd like any further advice, feel free to mail me
at tom [at] moo moo moo dot com.

Tom, definately not a lawyer, but the boy done good.