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#21
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message ups.com... Lou Holtman wrote: Jay Beattie wrote: Both ideas are silly. Another tooth may make you faster -- if being comfortable in a gear makes you faster, which, IMO, it does. Not that I am advocating for a million-gear cassette, but there have been times I wished for a 20 or a 22 or whatever other in-between gear I was missing at the time -- or an extra gear at the top or bottom end. This mostly occurred in races or when I was being pushed hard on a ride. The real question is whether having an in-between gear or an extra gear is worth the expense of 10 speed and the shortened chain and cassette life. Why do you think the a 10 speed chain and cassette have a shortened life? It's not my experience. My nine speed cassette and chain has the shortest lifetime.......because they are on my MTB. My 10 speed stuff on my road bike last as long as my 9 speed stuff before that. Lou Agree. Chain and cogset life for 10s is samo as 9s.. I'm going on what I have heard about Shimano 10, which may be a matter of YMMV. I don't own any 10s bikes. I can say that based on personal experience, my nine speed SRAM chains have not held up as well as my 8 speeds (which actually take more abuse). The cassettes are about the same. -- Jay Beattie. |
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#22
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
"amakyonin" wrote in message ups.com... Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote: I think SRAM saw the hole in the future market (low-cost road groups) and decided to take the plunge, starting with a high end group. They've bought up so many companies already that it's becoming a decent conglomerate. It remains to be seen how low cost the SRAM road group will be. I have a feeling that SRAM will expand their line from the top down, and have Xenon-Record breadth. Maybe not quite as many models, but at least enough to cover their bases. It looks like they'll have two shifters with alloy or carbon levers. Will the alloy versions be in competition with the now overpriced Ultegra or with 105? Their rear derailleur appears to be X.0 level and will likely have a commensurate price. Anyone willing to use an MTB long cage on a triple could try to find a cheap ESP RD, though. Their 9-speed cassettes are already overpriced in parity with Shimano. Huh??? They're far cheaper. SRAM has a lot of room to undercut Shimano on the obscene 10-speed cassette pricing but I'm sure the big S will drop prices when they get some real competition there. Careful there... SRAM may become the big S. One bike maker in particular, Specialized, has outfitted almost all of their entry and mid-level mountain bikes and even a bunch of their top-end (S-Works included) mountain bikes with SRAM products. Although I personally believe that Shimano will make big pricing reorganizations in response to something like this for next year, it could be a sign of things to come. I think that SRAM knows that the OEM market is going to be its biggest target, because if they can penetrate the OEM market and get their products out on new bikes, people will have a replacement/upgrade path along SRAM instead of Shimano or Campy. Aggressive initial pricing will be their primary goal to woo as many manufacturers as possible, given enough production capacity. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
#23
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
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#24
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
Matt O'Toole wrote: On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:08:49 -0800, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: Well, for good or ill, that is the direction that road casettes are a going and about the limit they will go considering 130mm spacing, hub design and cog/chain thickness, reliability. Well they can change all that too if they want. Shimano has tried smaller chains before, and had working prototypes but never marketed it. They've shown plans for a 14 speed cassette, also using a smaller chain. If they were to start at 9s they would be viewed as 'inferior' by those that care about such things. I thought 7sp was plenty, even for mountain bikes. With 9 and 10 speed cassettes, I sometimes wonder why have more than one chainring anymore. What really gets me is how the 10sp cassettes have no wider range than the 8 or 9. It would be nice to have that 16t cog though... Matt O. Compact crank and a 11-23 10s.... |
#25
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
RonSonic wrote: On 29 Nov 2005 07:41:46 -0800, wrote: wrote: The top three groups of both Shimano (Dura-Ace, Ultegra, 105) and Campagnolo (Record, Chorus, Centaur) are all 10 speed. In other words, anything halfway decent that you'd want on your bike is 10 speed. Sounds like you're a complete sucker for marketing! Do you _really_ think adding another cog makes you that much faster? Do you _really_ think anything below the "most the market can bear" price is junk? Both ideas are silly. However true that may be, and I do believe there is a lot of truth to it, if I were getting in the business of selling parts for road bikes I'd make them ten speed. Ron "I gotta a 10s...2 in the front, 5 in the back, good enough for Eddy, good enough for me" |
#26
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:38:31 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
wrote: I think SRAM saw the hole in the future market (low-cost road groups) and decided to take the plunge, starting with a high end group. They've bought up so many companies already that it's becoming a decent conglomerate. Aren't most of the components in the sram road group existing stuff except with an SRAM label instead of company-they've-bought? ISTR that only the shifters were truly new. Jasper |
#27
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
Jasper Janssen wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:38:31 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote: I think SRAM saw the hole in the future market (low-cost road groups) and decided to take the plunge, starting with a high end group. They've bought up so many companies already that it's becoming a decent conglomerate. Aren't most of the components in the sram road group existing stuff except with an SRAM label instead of company-they've-bought? ISTR that only the shifters were truly new. When I mentioned company-they've-bought, it's larely mountain bike companies (Avid, Rockshox). Truvativ has quite a few road offerings. But no, a lot of the components are new. Think about it: 1. 10-speed cassette (all new, but likely a spacer change is all that's needed) 2. ESP Rear derailleur (mostly new X.O with short cage and angle) 3. 10-speed chain (old; probably no different from the PC-89R) 4. Shifters (whiz-bang new!) 5. Brakeset (whiz-bang new!) 6. Front derailleur (newish; SRAM's never made a double front derailleur) 7. Crankset/BB (old, from Truvativ) They might get into the following, too: 8. Hubs (new, but they've been doing hubs for a while) 9. Wheels (dunno where they'd source these... Alex, Xero probably) 10. Bars/stems/seatposts (old, Truvativ) So it looks like there's a brakeset, shifters, rear derailleur, and front derailleur that completes the "all-new" package. And the chain and cassette will be newish. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
#28
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
Jasper Janssen wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:38:31 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote: I think SRAM saw the hole in the future market (low-cost road groups) and decided to take the plunge, starting with a high end group. They've bought up so many companies already that it's becoming a decent conglomerate. Aren't most of the components in the sram road group existing stuff except with an SRAM label instead of company-they've-bought? ISTR that only the shifters were truly new. Jasper Shifters, rear and front der, brakes are new...Crank is Tryvative. |
#29
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:37:51 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:38:31 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote: I think SRAM saw the hole in the future market (low-cost road groups) and decided to take the plunge, starting with a high end group. They've bought up so many companies already that it's becoming a decent conglomerate. Aren't most of the components in the sram road group existing stuff except with an SRAM label instead of company-they've-bought? ISTR that only the shifters were truly new. When I mentioned company-they've-bought, it's larely mountain bike companies (Avid, Rockshox). Truvativ has quite a few road offerings. But no, a lot of the components are new. Think about it: 1. 10-speed cassette (all new, but likely a spacer change is all that's needed) 2. ESP Rear derailleur (mostly new X.O with short cage and angle) 3. 10-speed chain (old; probably no different from the PC-89R) 5. Brakeset (whiz-bang new!) Weren't these supposed to be lightly modified Tektros? 6. Front derailleur (newish; SRAM's never made a double front derailleur) 7. Crankset/BB (old, from Truvativ) 8. Hubs (new, but they've been doing hubs for a while) 10. Bars/stems/seatposts (old, Truvativ) All of the above are new products, but they're minor adaptations from existing product *lines*. I mean, changing the angle and cage length of the derailer may require some new tooling plus some new road testing, but I very much doubt there's *really* significant engineering there. I mean, there pretty much can't be, they're not large enough to do all that at once, and besides, a trusty, proven design is much better for 'em anyway. They're already taking a huge risk by introducing the shifters and remarketing everything else, they really don't want to take any chances on the rest of the group becoming a problem area. 9. Wheels (dunno where they'd source these... Alex, Xero probably) 4. Shifters (whiz-bang new!) So it looks like there's a brakeset, shifters, rear derailleur, and front derailleur that completes the "all-new" package. And the chain and cassette will be newish. I'd still only really classify the shifters as truly new, as in a complete departure from anything they've ever done before. Brakes I'm not sure about. But narrower cassettes with an extra cog.. not exactly rocket science. Jasper |
#30
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Why is SRAM going with a 10s ...
Jasper Janssen wrote:
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:37:51 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:38:31 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote: I think SRAM saw the hole in the future market (low-cost road groups) and decided to take the plunge, starting with a high end group. They've bought up so many companies already that it's becoming a decent conglomerate. Aren't most of the components in the sram road group existing stuff except with an SRAM label instead of company-they've-bought? ISTR that only the shifters were truly new. When I mentioned company-they've-bought, it's larely mountain bike companies (Avid, Rockshox). Truvativ has quite a few road offerings. But no, a lot of the components are new. Think about it: 1. 10-speed cassette (all new, but likely a spacer change is all that's needed) 2. ESP Rear derailleur (mostly new X.O with short cage and angle) 3. 10-speed chain (old; probably no different from the PC-89R) 5. Brakeset (whiz-bang new!) Weren't these supposed to be lightly modified Tektros? I've never seen an upper arm split in two like these a http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20..._brake_caliper 6. Front derailleur (newish; SRAM's never made a double front derailleur) 7. Crankset/BB (old, from Truvativ) 8. Hubs (new, but they've been doing hubs for a while) 10. Bars/stems/seatposts (old, Truvativ) All of the above are new products, but they're minor adaptations from existing product *lines*. I mean, changing the angle and cage length of the derailer may require some new tooling plus some new road testing, but I very much doubt there's *really* significant engineering there. I mean, there pretty much can't be, they're not large enough to do all that at once, and besides, a trusty, proven design is much better for 'em anyway. They're already taking a huge risk by introducing the shifters and remarketing everything else, they really don't want to take any chances on the rest of the group becoming a problem area. Agreed. They're adaptations, yes. I was interpreting new as "not having an identical current model under a different name." 9. Wheels (dunno where they'd source these... Alex, Xero probably) 4. Shifters (whiz-bang new!) So it looks like there's a brakeset, shifters, rear derailleur, and front derailleur that completes the "all-new" package. And the chain and cassette will be newish. I'd still only really classify the shifters as truly new, as in a complete departure from anything they've ever done before. Brakes I'm not sure about. But narrower cassettes with an extra cog.. not exactly rocket science. So they're already done with the hard part and can rock out with low prices for everyone! -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
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