Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?

TimC wrote:
On 2006-02-20, dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

You know how the lanesplitting law will add only minimally to the time
we take to complete a journey? (yes thats what the proposal says)

Well it would add about 3 hours to this guys 10 minute journey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-MtX...rch=motorcycle


Struth! What a dickhead! Putting a lot of faith in his fellow road
users.

Agressive riding around the other riders.


He was a ****load faster than I would be thats for sure. Even when
chased by the cops. I would be one of the guys he passed.

ANd yeah he is a nut.

BUT I must say it looked more dangerous than it was. He had no margin
whatsoever for error.. in fact you can hear him touch a mirror in the
first minute.. ANd a piece of steel sticking out from a truck would have
killed him. But if you are sure you will fit overtakeing trucks fast is
probably safer.. Its many turns lock to lock of a big heavy steering
wheel... trucks just cannot change direction quick enough to hit you..
and at all the places where I was going.. "The guy on the left is going
to move over" he had it sussed too.

A second dan lane splitter. Not defending him you understand.. we all
make mistakes and any mistake he makes is going to hurt. But he wasnt
at the risk from the traffic that a non motorcyclist would think...

Did you notice that ALL the other motorcyclist.. even the guy on the CX
towards the end knew he was there

Dave

Dave

cfsmtb wrote:
This is probably a question that should be posed over at aus.cars.
Anyway for those of you with licenses, do you recall *anything* either
in handbooks or the computer tests that directly related to pedestrians
or cyclists?

Well, I gained mine in NSW before the computer tests were introduced,
but I was in the RTA section when the intial testing program was
"written". Great reluctance to give a definite question on bicycles.
Bicycles were one of a number of topics that would randomly occupy 6 of
36 questions (hazy memory now). So it was quite possible that no
question is asked on bicycles


Today the media is full of depressing news about the Mildura deaths,
the police admit they're bewildered over the Vic road toll and there's
more defeatist ****ing and moaning about aggressive road behaviour.

If Vic Police are like NSW Police then it is their attitude towards
other road users that is to blame. For decades, he majority attitude
that I've witnessed in NSW Police is that the "car is god".

Role on the dutch approach.

cfsmtb wrote:
dave Wrote:

Are you still interested in getting your bike learners?


Yeah I am actually, speaking of postie bikes, I'd love one! Don't want
to ride on freeways & not interested in fanging it. Several years back
I had a great chat with a moto rider who had this seriously hot Italian
sport bike (can't recall the make!) We both agreed on many things,
including a dislike of being 'enclosed' in a car cabin. Bikesoiler & I
have discussed (slightly) me getting a car license more as a practical
measure.


Hmmmmmm well then ..
http://www.netrider.net.au/forums/vi...t=postie+bikes

I dont think the pillion on the things is wonderfully useful.

Still they are fun.. and reliable and about as complicted as a pushie.

IF you get one.. I can probably ferry it for you. If Steve cant teach
you I can probably manage that too. But if you can afford it I would go
for my learners with HART or motorcycle motion. Do you want me to loan
you the motorcycle skills video? Its VHS. And translates almost
perfectly into pushy skills.. Lots of cross over

Dave

dave wrote:
Euan wrote:
"Bleve" writes:


Maybe the 30km/h thing is a big factor? I'd doubt if more questions on
a test would change anyone's agressive driving behaviour.


No, but at least everyone on the roads will know what the rules are.
Heck there are policemen out there who don't know it's legal for
cyclists to ride to abreast. That is appalling.

Agreed, but it's not addressing the core issue, IMO.

And, as much as I don't like it, seperating cars from bikes and bikes
from pedestrians makes it safer for us (bikes). Takes us out of the
firing line. But, so does sitting inside watching TV while riding a
spin trainer. Not an alternative I fancy much.


It's only slightly riskier riding a bike than it is to drive a car and
walking's riskier than riding a bike. Where's the justification for
separating bikes from cars, especially as riding get safer as more per
capita ride and there's more per capita riding.

I do absolutely agree with Euan. And who says you are out of the
firing line?

If bikes are not sharing the same space as cars, they cannot be hit by
cars. There is no room for argument in that situation. It is a simple
fact. I'm not a proponent of it (ie: please read what I wrote, in
context) but it would be safer than the current situation. A car
cannot hit me if I am riding down the Eastern Freeway bike path. I
might run into a dog or a jogger and break a bone though! Please also
note that I am not overstating the risks of riding on the road. I
think the risk is minimal and one that I cheerfully accept every day,
but that doesn't change the fact that it is a greater risk than riding
on a seperated track. I'm not talking about riding on the footpath
either.

Sheesh. Any idea how many peds get skittled by cars..

Yep, heaps. Much more than cyclists. Not relevant. People get eaten
by sharks, hit by lightening, chased by triffids ...

when they are on the footpath? Its significant. People have been
killed in their beds. In kindergartens.

Yes. Please pay attention to the context of the discussion. You're
arguing a point that I have not made.

Incidently I will bet that no one has ever been killed by a cyclist
crashing into their house. (might limit that to in australia tho)

You're probably right. It's a red herring.

The things that you think are dangerous often are not the things that
are dangerous. THe safest sport in Australia is supposed to be target
shooting. The most dangerous mainstream sport Lawn Bowles. (The most
dangerous sport is supposed to be cave diving with 1 in 10 people killed
every year.. but that just shows that occasionally what looks dangerous
really is

Cave diving used to be dangerous, but AFAIK it has been a very long
time since anyone died in this country doing it, it's been pretty safe
since the CDAA took responsibility for it,:
http://www.cavedivers.com.au/ and here's one for Euan It got safer
because of improved training and regulation See if you can find the
counterpoint that makes it different to car licencing.

When doing the first part of the theory test to get my Ls in SA a few
years back, I failed after mis-answering a "which must give way"
question in which car A was already over the line making it's move;
in theory car A had to give way, but as car A was already obstructing
the move car B wanted to make I marked B as the one which must give way.

Bzzt. Wrong.

(After finally getting my Ls then Ps, I drove a handful of times in my
parents' car, decided I didn't like it, let my license lapse, and have
never driven since. The caged life is too stressful.)

- mkli.

On 2006-02-20, dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
TimC wrote:
Agressive riding around the other riders.

He was a ****load faster than I would be thats for sure. Even when
chased by the cops. I would be one of the guys he passed.

I thought I heard a siren, but couldn't quite hear over Billy
Connelly.

ANd yeah he is a nut.

BUT I must say it looked more dangerous than it was. He had no margin
whatsoever for error.. in fact you can hear him touch a mirror in the
first minute.. ANd a piece of steel sticking out from a truck would have
killed him. But if you are sure you will fit overtakeing trucks fast is
probably safer.. Its many turns lock to lock of a big heavy steering
wheel... trucks just cannot change direction quick enough to hit you..
and at all the places where I was going.. "The guy on the left is going
to move over" he had it sussed too.

I noticed he had them all sussed.




I taped Ausstory and watched it just then -- dammit, watching any
footage of the AIS team these days sends me to tears. It's good to
hear they are all making great progress.

Dave

Dave

Tim

Tim



--
TimC
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?

cfsmtb wrote:
This is probably a question that should be posed over at aus.cars.
Anyway for those of you with licenses, do you recall *anything* either
in handbooks or the computer tests that directly related to
pedestrians or cyclists?

Today the media is full of depressing news about the Mildura deaths,
the police admit they're bewildered over the Vic road toll and there's
more defeatist ****ing and moaning about aggressive road behaviour.

At the Connecting Cycling Conference last Thursday, Dr John Pucher
demonstrated how in the German drivers license - 30 / 40% of the
questions directly pertaining to peds/cyclists interactions. Suburban
zones have a strict 30km limit, the Autobahns are quite another
matter!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn

Unless something has changed recently, the speed limit in built-up areas in
Germany is 50kph, around 30mph. A 30kph/18mph speed limit would be
impractical for a car.

While I'm waiting for a copy of his presentation to verify my notes
I've been going through the VicRoads website trying to check for
references to peds/cyclists. And all I'm finding is rather cursory
references and a lot of gobbledigook. Am I missing something, as I've
never driven a car, or is there a bleeding obvious lack of education,
enforcement and clear speaking?

The licensing requirements here are ridiculous. The German license has long
been considered the Gold standard of such tests, and incorporates a
mandatory training programme, as well as examination phases both theoretical
and practical. Given the lack of speed limits their limited-access roads,
and given the range of conditions experienced on them, their road toll would
be of carnage proportions if they applied our tests.

Anyway, I just looked in to see if there were any trike-riders here? I am
awaiting delivery of a Greenspeed recumbent, first bike/trike I've owned in
20 years, and was hoping to get some tips on surviving the first two months
with it.

Any advice gratefully accepted.

Ian

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:49:44 +1100
cfsmtb wrote:
I had a great chat with a moto rider who had this seriously hot Italian
sport bike (can't recall the make!) We both agreed on many things,
including a dislike of being 'enclosed' in a car cabin. Bikesoiler & I
have discussed (slightly) me getting a car license more as a practical
measure.

If you have been riding a pushbike on the road, then you won't have
that much trouble with traffic on a motorbike as you already have most
of the skills. Just have to cope with the speed which can be pretty
disturbing!

A car licence might be more practical in that you are more likely to
drive someone else's car than someone else's bike, but if you don't
practice your skills won't transfer as well. Think parking....

Posties go in the 1000-1200 range and have been majorly thrashed.
Consider a 2nd hand 125 scooter which will be a bit more expensive but
a lot less thrashed, and being a straight auto will be even easier.
Fit it with a towbar, pull a bicycle trailer for those longer distance
hauling jobs

Zebee

TimC wrote:
On 2006-02-20, dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

TimC wrote:

Agressive riding around the other riders.

He was a ****load faster than I would be thats for sure. Even when
chased by the cops. I would be one of the guys he passed.


I thought I heard a siren, but couldn't quite hear over Billy
Connelly.

Sadly he was just a commuter

ANd yeah he is a nut.

BUT I must say it looked more dangerous than it was. He had no margin
whatsoever for error.. in fact you can hear him touch a mirror in the
first minute.. ANd a piece of steel sticking out from a truck would have
killed him. But if you are sure you will fit overtakeing trucks fast is
probably safer.. Its many turns lock to lock of a big heavy steering
wheel... trucks just cannot change direction quick enough to hit you..
and at all the places where I was going.. "The guy on the left is going
to move over" he had it sussed too.


I noticed he had them all sussed.




I taped Ausstory and watched it just then -- dammit, watching any
footage of the AIS team these days sends me to tears. It's good to
hear they are all making great progress.


Well some of them are making great progress. Or they are all making
great progress considering where they started.

See my reply to Suzie.. Woosy Tim Not a sniff from Dave.

Yeah righhhht

Dave

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:49:44 +1100
cfsmtb wrote:

I had a great chat with a moto rider who had this seriously hot Italian
sport bike (can't recall the make!) We both agreed on many things,
including a dislike of being 'enclosed' in a car cabin. Bikesoiler & I
have discussed (slightly) me getting a car license more as a practical
measure.


If you have been riding a pushbike on the road, then you won't have
that much trouble with traffic on a motorbike as you already have most
of the skills. Just have to cope with the speed which can be pretty
disturbing!

And learn about using speed, accelleration as a safety aid, and about
staying in the gaps between bunches of cars becouse its safer and you
now have the horsepower (Maybe not on a CT110... but I am pretty sure
lance already rides his bicycle like that

A car licence might be more practical in that you are more likely to
drive someone else's car than someone else's bike, but if you don't
practice your skills won't transfer as well. Think parking....

Yeah. The accident rate on borrowed bikes is pretty bad as well. I
suspect that thats the dickheads.. Of course I can impress you on your
GSXR1100.

Posties go in the 1000-1200 range and have been majorly thrashed.
Consider a 2nd hand 125 scooter which will be a bit more expensive but
a lot less thrashed, and being a straight auto will be even easier.
Fit it with a towbar, pull a bicycle trailer for those longer distance
hauling jobs

Zebee


The last postie I bought was 400 at aution.. for someone else. I
wouldnt actually own one cept as a second or third motorbike. (Behind
the orange 750 SS They have been thrashed but seem to thrive on
it. And they are a quick and easy (if not cheap becouse honda) rebuild.

I get the impression cfsmtb wants a postie particulary.. in which case
she should have one. And my only issue with that probably doesnt apply
in her case. Its that many people with scooters just dont think of
themselfs as motorcyclists.

Dave