Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:13:17 GMT, John Everett
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:18:49 GMT, Mike Vandeman
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:08:16 GMT, John Everett
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 07:39:39 -0700, Mike Vandeman
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:19:20 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
om...
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
Updated March 8, 2007



Frequently asked by whom?

You are a lying sack of **** Michael. You purport to have been a chair of an
SC committee for the past decade, and this is a flat out lie. You may have
been a chair at some point in the past decade, but stating that you have
been FOR the past decade demands an ongoing chairmanship.

At the time I wrote that, I had been the chair for a decade. So
where's the lie? Missing in action, as usual. That makes YOU the liar.
No surprize there!

As a Sierra Club National Outings leader I have access to internal
club data bases. I don't know in which area of the club Mike claims to
be/have been active, but I just checked the rosters of all 23 outings
subcommittees and Mike not only doesn't chair any of them but he isn't
even a member of any of them.

Are you listening? I WAS the chair of the Wildlife Committee of the
San Francisco Bay Area Chapter. I'm not now. And who said anything
about "outings"?!

Actually no, I'm not listening.

It shows. That's why your comments were a non-sequitur: IRRELEVANT to
the discussion!

As I said further up this thread, this
is the first time I've ever participated in a MV thread. And BTW, ARE
YOU LISTENING? I said above, " I don't know in which area of the SC
Mike claims to be/have been active". I just checked out Outings
because I have access to the Club's "extranet".
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:15:01 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .

Are you listening? I WAS the chair of the Wildlife Committee of the
San Francisco Bay Area Chapter. I'm not now. And who said anything
about "outings"?!


Yes, you WERE. A very long time ago.

No, only a few years ago. Just prior to when I wrote that FAQ, as I
said.

Currently, you have not been chair of
anything in The Club for the past decade.

That's a bald-faced LIE. Show us some evidence, or shut up.

Mike's Quote
Note: I was the Chair of the Wildlife Committee of the Sierra Club's
San Francisco Bay Area Chapter for the past decade. During the same
period, I studied conservation biology and the environmental impacts
of mountain biking, which are summarized in my paper "The Impacts of
Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People -- A Review of the Literature"
/Quote

In the construction YOU used, YOUR words are that you were "for the past
decade" the chair of some committee. This means that you have been chair
from NOW, backwards in time for the entire decade.

Proper construction that would not make you a liar is, "I was once the chair
of a committee for a decade." That construction says that some point in the
past, you chaired the committee, it does not state that you have been chair
from now and for the decade preceding.

How does one get a PhD and not know something so elementary? I forget, you
use the New Vandeman Dictionary where up means down and "for the past
decade" means "a decade long ago."

L:iar. Forgive me, you are not a liar, you are simply one stupid son of a
bitch. Idiot.







===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:19:47 +0000 (UTC), "Wolf Leverich"
wrote:

On 2007-03-11, Jeff Strickland wrote:

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...

Are you listening? I WAS the chair of the Wildlife Committee of the
San Francisco Bay Area Chapter. I'm not now. And who said anything
about "outings"?!

Yes, you WERE. A very long time ago. Currently, you have not been chair of
anything in The Club for the past decade.

Mike's Quote
Note: I was the Chair of the Wildlife Committee of the Sierra Club's
San Francisco Bay Area Chapter for the past decade. During the same
period, I studied conservation biology and the environmental impacts
of mountain biking, which are summarized in my paper "The Impacts of
Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People -- A Review of the Literature"
/Quote


Hi all -

Just wandering through since the Sierra Club's name came up.

Like any large organization, the SC membership has diverse
opinions and what any single person says may or may not be
representative of the whole.

For whatever it's worth, I've led and participated in various
Sierra Club outings where folks were on mountain bikes. Used
with common sense and responsibility, mountain bikes are a
great way to enjoy the backcountry.

"Great" only for the mountain bikers! Definitely NOT "great" for the
wildlife or the other trail users. Why is it that mountain bikers just
can't manage to tell the truth about their selfish, destructive
sport?????

Speaking *only* as an individual, I'd like to see the Sierra
Club supporting the various mountain biking organizations
on access and trail issues in suitable areas.

The only areas suitable for bikes and other vehicles is on roads --
preferably PAVED roads, where they can't do much harm.

(Has anyone else ridden the road that separates the Dick Smith
and San Rafael Wildernesses in the Los Padres? Technical
challenge is just about zero except in early season when you
often have to cross slide zones, but the scenery is pretty
kickass by SoCal standards and you can get to places with zero
tourists and 30 miles of wilderness between you and the next
human being.)

This is the typical selfish view of a mountain biker: oblivious to his
effect on wildlife and other trail users.

Cheers, Wolf.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:19:47 +0000 (UTC), "Wolf Leverich"
wrote:

Speaking *only* as an individual, I'd like to see the Sierra
Club supporting the various mountain biking organizations
on access and trail issues in suitable areas.

The only areas suitable for bikes and other vehicles is on roads --
preferably PAVED roads, where they can't do much harm.


So much for your purported opposition to roads -- mountain bikes are
fine, as long as we pave the mountain trails to make them roads?

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

that walkers cause more erosion than mountain bikers. I don't think
there's ANY reliable science on horses vs. mountain bikers. Put up or

What I see with my own eyes, and what you see, should provide the
evidence. And there have been studies, its just that you haven't looked
them up or performed a basic internet search to find out. 4 large hooves
(or even 16 if there is a group of 3 riders) that churn up the ground
over a wide area is obviously going to cause more errosion than the very
thin footprint of a bike, or a group of bikes that follow roughly the
same line. In Malvern in the UK where I live there is some quite
horrendous rutting caused on some paths on the hills by horses. Also,
mountain bikes will usually follow existing paths, even if there is mud
or puddles in the way. Humans will side step these things thus causing
more erosion on the sides of pathways.

Mountain bikers voluntarily get together to make dedicated track areas,
and also to repair existing tracks. I don't recall hearing of such
programs organised by the likes of the Ramblers etc. Though there are
schemes such as that in the forest of Dean in Gloucestershire where
specialised tracks are made for bikers and walkers, as well as mixed use
tracks. What I do know is that there is a group of people that think
that if they don't have an interest in a particular thing, that nobody
else should either.

I'm afraid that in a free country if you don't like mountain bikers you
have a right to do so. But I'm afraid you'll just have to lump it.
Instead of waisting energy and filling yourself with anger over trivial
issues that you have exaggerated in your own mind you might be better
off just going out and enjoying the countryside you so proclaim to love.

Simon

On Mar 12, 4:45 am, Simon Wyndham wrote:

Instead of waisting energy and filling yourself with anger over trivial
issues that you have exaggerated in your own mind you might be better
off just going out and enjoying the countryside you so proclaim to love.

He's not wasting energy, because his whole agenda is to create noise
in usenet. You've fallen for his troll, and nothing you say will
change his mind. Smarter folks than you have tried for the last ten
or so years that he's been posting his drivel on the 'net.

Go ahead and look some stuff up from 1997. You'll see the exact same
stuff, just different respondents.

E.P.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:50:54 -0700, wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:19:47 +0000 (UTC), "Wolf Leverich"
wrote:

Speaking *only* as an individual, I'd like to see the Sierra
Club supporting the various mountain biking organizations
on access and trail issues in suitable areas.

The only areas suitable for bikes and other vehicles is on roads --
preferably PAVED roads, where they can't do much harm.


So much for your purported opposition to roads -- mountain bikes are
fine, as long as we pave the mountain trails to make them roads?

Thanks for demonstrating just how STOOPID mountain bikers are. You of
course know that I oppose paving.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:45:50 +0000, Simon Wyndham
wrote:


that walkers cause more erosion than mountain bikers. I don't think
there's ANY reliable science on horses vs. mountain bikers. Put up or

What I see with my own eyes, and what you see, should provide the
evidence. And there have been studies, its just that you haven't looked
them up or performed a basic internet search to find out.

They are all listed on my web site.

4 large hooves
(or even 16 if there is a group of 3 riders) that churn up the ground
over a wide area is obviously going to cause more errosion than the very
thin footprint of a bike, or a group of bikes that follow roughly the
same line.

That doesn't follow. The horse's weight is distributed over a much
larger area, reducing the PRESSURE.

In Malvern in the UK where I live there is some quite
horrendous rutting caused on some paths on the hills by horses. Also,
mountain bikes will usually follow existing paths, even if there is mud
or puddles in the way. Humans will side step these things thus causing
more erosion on the sides of pathways.

Bikers do the same thing. DUH!

Mountain bikers voluntarily get together to make dedicated track areas,
and also to repair existing tracks.

That only increases erosion.

I don't recall hearing of such
programs organised by the likes of the Ramblers etc. Though there are
schemes such as that in the forest of Dean in Gloucestershire where
specialised tracks are made for bikers and walkers, as well as mixed use
tracks. What I do know is that there is a group of people that think
that if they don't have an interest in a particular thing, that nobody
else should either.

I'm afraid that in a free country if you don't like mountain bikers you
have a right to do so.

I never said I don't like mountain bikers. I don't like mountain
BIKING. DUH! You guys are amazingly dense.

But I'm afraid you'll just have to lump it.
Instead of waisting energy and filling yourself with anger over trivial
issues that you have exaggerated in your own mind you might be better
off just going out and enjoying the countryside you so proclaim to love.

Simon

Provide some science, or shut up. Your biased observations are
worthless.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:15:01 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..

Are you listening? I WAS the chair of the Wildlife Committee of the
San Francisco Bay Area Chapter. I'm not now. And who said anything
about "outings"?!


Yes, you WERE. A very long time ago.

No, only a few years ago. Just prior to when I wrote that FAQ, as I
said.

Currently, you have not been chair of
anything in The Club for the past decade.

That's a bald-faced LIE. Show us some evidence, or shut up.


Are you CURRENTLY a chair of any SC committee?

No is the correct answer. Since you are not currently a chair, they you
haven't been "chair for past decade", you have been chair IN the past
decade, but not FOR.

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:18:06 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:08:43 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:19:20 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
news:9kn2v2dvoj8k3bebaa112v4fl0uu6s4vsv@4ax. com...
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
Updated March 8, 2007



Frequently asked by whom?

You are a lying sack of **** Michael. You purport to have been a chair
of
an
SC committee for the past decade, and this is a flat out lie. You may
have
been a chair at some point in the past decade, but stating that you
have
been FOR the past decade demands an ongoing chairmanship.

At the time I wrote that, I had been the chair for a decade. So
where's the lie? Missing in action, as usual. That makes YOU the liar.
No surprize there!



YOU updated the article on March 8, 2007, by your own admission. This
was
3
days ago. You have not been chair of anything having to do with the SC
for
the past decade. Indeed, you are persona non grata at the SC for as long
as
I have been visiting ca.environment, which is about 7 years.

And YOU are a bald-faced LIAR. You know NOTHING.


I know that you have not been chair of any SC committee for the past
decade.

No, you don't, liar, because it isn't true. You were discredited long
ago, and have continued lying ever since.


Discredited by who? You? Yeah, right.

What SC committee(s) do you chair TODAY?




For you to continue to assert that you have been a chair of anything for
the
past decade makes you the liar, my friend.

PS
You also have not spent the "previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and
road construction."

Yes, I did, previous to what I'm doing now (wildlife activism). Learn
to read.

No, Mike, you didn't.

The sentence construction you use implies current and ongoing fight. Either
you ignore the period prior to the past eight years -- making the fight even
longer, and hence bettrer for your resume -- or you have left the position
where your active fight was taking place -- making your assertion a lie.
Either way, you need to write yoiur sig line over so that your credentials
are clear and accurate, or remain the liar that you are.

PS
Your current response does not address the point I raised. It is a common
tactic or liars to attempt to divert the discussion to different topics than
those that expose the lies.