Say it ain't so Shimano!

Sheldon Brown at wrote on 8/14/03 6:08 PM:

Jim Edgar wrote:

I think the key point is that if I were a smaller independent retailer,
there'd be no reason to _stock_ Shimano bits, because all I'd hear all day
is,

"dude, i can get this on cheapxtr.com for $30 less!"

If Shimano gains enough trust from local retailers that the pricing won't
get whored, there's no reason for them _not_ to stock Shimano parts, rather
than just special order the stuff.

Yes, but Brandford isn't one of the bad guys in this. They're a very
reputable operation, charge a reasonable markup and, by all accounts,
give excellent service.

Operations like theirs (and ours, if I do say so myself) provide a very
useful service for folks who don't have the good fortune to live in easy
range of a good, well stocked bike shop, or who need semi-obscure items
that even a good local shop isn't likely to stock.

Absolutely. My comments were directed neither at Brandford nor Harris
Cyclery.

My point was that most local independant shops will make the decision to
stock and sell items that don't make them look silly. Why stock an XTR
crankset when people can buy it for your cost?

They don't have to have the same price as a mailorder/internet source,
because if it's in stock and ready to use, that's normally worth a few bucks
against shipping costs and waiting for the delivery to arrive.

When the "street" price drops down to wholesale for the independent, then
there's no reason to waste inventory dollars to stock something. That
forces buyers to order online, because, as others have pointed out, it's
just as efficient for them to order as it is for a small retailer to order.

I'd like _good_ shops like yours and certain local shops to be able to
flourish against the Super-Form-Bar juggernaut. I think this prevent them
from using OEM buying as a tool to use against you.

-- Jim

"Sheldon Brown" wrote in message
...

Yes, but Brandford isn't one of the bad guys in this. They're a very
reputable operation, charge a reasonable markup and, by all accounts,
give excellent service.

I can vouch for Branford. They provide really good service. They're by no
means the cheapest on the block, but like Harris and Veccios they are always
very forthcoming with good, sound advice. Incidentally nothing I've ever
bought from them has come in a bag, always the correct box.

I think the real bad guy in this is Shimano. They try to corner the market
by selling at low prices to OEMs, then expect those of us who build our own
bikes to pay for their market domination, by charging us, via distributors,
comparitively ridiculous prices for the same equipment. If they were an
Australian company, our competition watchdog would be jumping down their
throats.

Regards,

Suzy

Suzy Jackson wrote:
I think the real bad guy in this is Shimano. They try to corner the market
by selling at low prices to OEMs, then expect those of us who build our own
bikes to pay for their market domination, by charging us, via distributors,
comparitively ridiculous prices for the same equipment. If they were an
Australian company, our competition watchdog would be jumping down their
throats.

Price fixing is considered normal and acceptable practice in Japan.
They think a bit differently there. I wonder if there's enough to
make an anti-trust case here in the U.S. though. Maybe a bunch of
LBS's and distributors could get together and do the class action
thing against Shimano. I don't know. Maybe if all of the U.S.
distributors got together and refused to buy Shimano until the
policies were changed, they could force the changes down Shimano's
throat. I know that's not realistic but it's an idea.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

"Bruni" writes:

When I started building bikes 13 yrs. ago, Suntour, cane creek,
later Ritchey and FSA sold small builders OEM. When I called Shimano they
said: how many containerloads do you need?
This imperious attitude sent me to the competition.Maybe now the consumer
too will balk at cheap sh-t Shimano Total Integration (read wannabe
monopoly) that is not repairable,
expensive ;(Mirage ergo weighs less than Dura-ace and costs
2/3 of Tiagra). You think?

This is a good point. Shimano has probably already done more to kill
small bicycle shops than any other parts maker in history. The
shimano way is (a) remove old component, (b) throw in trash, (c)
install brand new incompatible shimano component with different look
and perhaps 5 other components so drivetrain can work again. No
thinking required. Even the dumbest customer can fix it easily.

Against this backdrop, the need for bicycle mechanics has probably
plunged 80% over the past 20 years.

Now shimano is taking its last step towards putting small LBS's out of
business. They are going to starve them for profits on parts.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Bill Davidson wrote:


Price fixing is considered normal and acceptable practice in Japan.

Really? I've seen no evidence of it, all sorts of consumer goods are
available at a wide range of prices if you know where to look.

They think a bit differently there.

Well that's true enough!

James

Bill Davidson wrote:

Suzy Jackson wrote:
I think the real bad guy in this is Shimano. They try to corner the market
by selling at low prices to OEMs, then expect those of us who build our own
bikes to pay for their market domination, by charging us, via distributors,
comparitively ridiculous prices for the same equipment. If they were an
Australian company, our competition watchdog would be jumping down their
throats.

Price fixing is considered normal and acceptable practice in Japan.
They think a bit differently there. I wonder if there's enough to
make an anti-trust case here in the U.S. though. Maybe a bunch of
LBS's and distributors could get together and do the class action
thing against Shimano. I don't know. Maybe if all of the U.S.
distributors got together and refused to buy Shimano until the
policies were changed, they could force the changes down Shimano's
throat. I know that's not realistic but it's an idea.

--Bill Davidson

I'm sure "price fixing" means if Shimano, Campy and Sachs agreed on
prices, which is illegal in many countries. Shimano assuring its own
components retail at consistent prices through the market isn't price
fixing. Heaps of companies do it. Cyclist would be ****ed about it
because Shimano is a near monopoly. (Especially if you're a mountain
biker. Roadies OTOH have very viable alternative)

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:10:25 -0700, Bill Davidson
wrote:

Maybe if all of the U.S.
distributors got together and refused to buy Shimano until the
policies were changed, they could force the changes down Shimano's
throat. I know that's not realistic but it's an idea.

The consumer can vote by just boycotting Shimano components as
individual components or any bicycle that has Shimano components.
That won't happen.

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:09 +0800, (Gary K)
wrote:


I'm sure "price fixing" means if Shimano, Campy and Sachs agreed on
prices, which is illegal in many countries.


They don't agree on prices but they do agree on volumes produced and
allocate quantities to markets.

The market size is relatively static and none of the companies would
sell more or fewer units by price tactics. Were that the case,
Shimano, the most efficient and largest producer can take the entire
market at will.

Paul Kopit wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:09 +0800, (Gary K)
wrote:


I'm sure "price fixing" means if Shimano, Campy and Sachs agreed on
prices, which is illegal in many countries.


They don't agree on prices but they do agree on volumes produced and
allocate quantities to markets.

You saying they meet with each other to decide this? Don't know how
legal that would be..

The market size is relatively static and none of the companies would
sell more or fewer units by price tactics. Were that the case,
Shimano, the most efficient and largest producer can take the entire
market at will.

Doubt price fixing would work in the bike component industry anyway. Its
for homogenous goods, like petrol, pharmaceuticals etc, where several
competitors market identical products.

"Chris" wrote in message
news:sYP_a.834
Worst case
scenario? Riders no longer save
10-20 bucks, and have to go to a dreaded
(gasp) local bike shop (oh no) and get the
part from an actual person.

Right.....it's not like it's the consumers own time or money. How dare
they complain about having no longer having a cheaper or more
convenient way to shop!

JT

--
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged

Visit http://www.jt10000.com
*******************************************