Poll: Are cyclists a menace on the road?

VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:30:40 +1000,
(Peter) wrote:

VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

The article photo has the overtaking driver giving plenty of space.
http://www.news.com.au/common/imaged...5605507,00.jpg
Well done 282-AJG !

On Aug 12, 1:30 pm, (Peter) wrote:
VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

C'mon, we're 1% behind!

Donga wrote:
On Aug 12, 1:30 pm, (Peter) wrote:
VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

C'mon, we're 1% behind!

As at 19:41 AEST

Poll Results

Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:

Are cyclists a menace on the road?

Yes 41% (433 votes)
No 58% (604 votes)
Sum votes:
Total votes: 1037 votes so far



--
--
Pete.B

Donga Wrote:
On Aug 12, 1:30 pm, (Peter) wrote:
VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

C'mon, we're 1% behind!


17% gap, pulling away swiftly. Dust clouds rising.

Are cyclists a menace on the road?
Yes: 41% (433 votes)
No: 58% (606 votes)
Sum votes: Total votes: 1039 votes so far

PS. Can someone get a screen shot of the online poll before it closes?


--
cfsmtb

cfsmtb wrote:

Donga Wrote:
On Aug 12, 1:30 pm, (Peter) wrote:
VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

C'mon, we're 1% behind!

17% gap, pulling away swiftly. Dust clouds rising.

Are cyclists a menace on the road?
Yes: 41% (433 votes)
No: 58% (606 votes)
Sum votes: Total votes: 1039 votes so far

PS. Can someone get a screen shot of the online poll before it closes?

--
cfsmtb

Irrespective of such dodgy poll outcomes where polarized
voters get a chance to push their favourite barrow,
cyclists are not going to give up riding on the road
if the motorists vote them off the road.

Here in the ACT it became obvious that without cycle lanes on roads,
and despite a generous few hundred kilometres of cycle paths and
interconnected footpaths
and recreational trails, cyclists still insisted they be able to ride on
the road, and
insisted the motorists all have a duty of care about them.

I once rode 300kms a week nearly all on roads in the ACT between 1986
and 1992,
and had quite a few interfaces with motorists and bus/truck drivers who
could have easily killed me in a number of incidents.

The actual number of cyclists then was about a 1/3 of ppl riding now,
and nearly all angry young men.
Now the crowd of guys has grown, and has many females amoungst them.
The number of vehicles has doubled.
Had there been no cycle lanes installed many more cyclists would have
been maimed or killed,
and much more argy bargy would have continued.
So the motorist lobby caved in to political Labour Party largesse at the
time and cycle lanes were
installed to separate the motorists from cyclists. Hooray!!!

And so now its much less likely that cyclists actually become a menace,
and there is more peace and security for all, because the action taken
by motorists
to cope with passing cyclists on crowded busy roads is less fraught with
danger to all traffic flow.
And for example, I have been nearly creamed by vehicles towing trailers
which often have been
a foot wider than the tow vehicle, so someone passes with a tight
clearance,
but fogetting the wider trailer width, and its whizzed past your feet
inches away, phew...
I ride close to the gutter even when I'm in a bike lane.
It also leaves room for faster cysclists to pass without a swing out
into the car lane, something that really infuriates drivers no end.


The actual number of cyclists is still miniscule,
and only in peak hours in summer does the number of cyclists commuting
become
actually visible, because most ppl who
ride here hang up the bike in late March, get fat over winter,
then begin to ride again in September. Many are triathletes who
rarely cycle regularly all year around.

If you sit by the busiest road, Northbourne Ave,
at off peak times, maybe one cyclist rides past every 10 minutes;
its an extremely tiny % of the traffic flow in terms of people passing.
Many won't go near a busy road because they are nervous nellies
or they can't stand the motor fumes.

But for sure this tiny stream of cyclists is not a menace to motorists.

Meanwhile, despite the good motorists, and the cycle lanes and cycle
paths,
many motorists are a definite menace to cyclists.

So what the poll question should be is "Are motorists a menace to
cyclists?"

With cycle lanes, I am a less temporary Australian.

Patrick Turner.

On Aug 12, 9:44 am, Patrick Turner wrote:
SNIP
So the motorist lobby caved in to political Labour Party largesse at the
time and cycle lanes were
installed to separate the motorists from cyclists. Hooray!!!

And so now its much less likely that cyclists actually become a menace,
and there is more peace and security for all, because the action taken
by motorists
to cope with passing cyclists on crowded busy roads is less fraught with
danger to all traffic flow.
SNIP

I find bike lanes useful in many places. But in inner Melbourne, they
are no substitute for vehicular cycling and skills to merge and "take
the lane" where necessary. Bike lanes don't help much at
intersections, and if installed thoughtlessly can be dangerous
themselves, eg in the parked car door zone.
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segrega...cle_facilities

So what the poll question should be is "Are motorists a menace to
cyclists?"

Absolutely! Or at least make it more truthful, ie: "Are cyclists an
inconvenience to motorists?"

cfsmtb wrote:

Donga Wrote:
On Aug 12, 1:30 pm, (Peter) wrote:
VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Courier Mail Poll:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yuv33

C'mon, we're 1% behind!


17% gap, pulling away swiftly. Dust clouds rising.

Are cyclists a menace on the road?
Yes: 41% (433 votes)
No: 58% (606 votes)
Sum votes: Total votes: 1039 votes so far

PS. Can someone get a screen shot of the online poll before it closes?

When I first looked at the poll the situation was, Yes 67% No 33%. They
should run a poll such as: Are cyclists better organised than most
groups when it comes to manipulating online polling?

Do you want a screen shot emailed Chris?

P

Patrick Turner Wrote:

The actual number of cyclists then was about a 1/3 of ppl riding now,
and nearly all angry young men.
Now the crowd of guys has grown, and has many females amoungst them.
The number of vehicles has doubled.
Had there been no cycle lanes installed many more cyclists would have
been maimed or killed,
and much more argy bargy would have continued.
So the motorist lobby caved in to political Labour Party largesse at
the
time and cycle lanes were
installed to separate the motorists from cyclists. Hooray!!!

That's debateable.

France has very little in the way of `cycling infrastructure' so you
see a lot more of them on the roads as a part of normal traffic. Far
from there being argy bargy, cyclists are treated with the utmost
resepct.

I was taking part in an organised bike tour around Paris. The leader
was about to cork the intersection to usher everyone through but
noticed there was an ambulance with blues and twos about to head
through. He aborted the cork and waved him through.

The reaction of the ambulance driver was to gratefully wave his thanks
to the organizer. I don't have to wonder what a Melbourne paramedic's
reaction to being delayed for 5 seconds while the tour guide sorted
things out would have been.

Road infrastructure is a small part of the big picture, attitude is
much more important.


--
EuanB

Patrick Turner Wrote:
I ride close to the gutter even when I'm in a bike lane.
It also leaves room for faster cysclists to pass without a swing out
into the car lane, something that really infuriates drivers no end.

Missed this bit. You're riding in the most dangerous place of the
road.

The reason you're nearly getting creamed is because you're not sending
the message to other traffic that they have to move to get past you.

The safest place to ride is where the nearside wheels of normal traffic
run. Traffic has to move to get past you so traffic moves by a decent
amount. All of a sudden you're no longer getting creamed.

Also 'cause you're not in the gutter you're much more visible and
visibility is a cyclists first and best defence.


--
EuanB