right hook

lokey wrote:

I was going north in a bike lane on a multilane city street. I stop at a
light - not a cross-street intersection but a plaza entrance on the west
side and a senior's complex entrance on the right but still controlled by
signal lights.

I am first at the intersection. A public transit mobility bus [not a
standard bus but one for people with mobility handicaps] pulls up beside me.
Then before the light changes the bus starts inching forward anticipating
the light change so that he is blocking the crosswalk and half his length
ahead of me when the light turns and he makes his right turn in front of me.

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

--
'Nobody here gets out alive' -jim morrison



If you noted the vehicle plate number, time of day, and street... I
would definitely call it in.

Unfortunately, where I come from motorists also seem to think they can
try to beat the pedestrians waiting to cross at the light when they try
to turn after waiting for the light.

When the pedestrian "walk" sign is up the motorists are supposed to
wait, many don't even both glancing to see the state of the "walk" sign.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:15:06 -0400, "lokey" wrote:

I wasn't really at risk as I was stopped. If I had come up after him as
the light changed to green I would have been at risk.

What really irritated me was that it wasn't like I had ridden up to the
light after the bus and the driver did not notice me - still no excuse but
understandable. But the bus had come up behind me so there really is no
excuse for not seeing me. And _then_ to turn in front of me: I was tempted
to confront the driver but instead I resorted to cant [Calm blue ocean, calm
blue ocean] and got on with my ride to the lake.

I've also experienced this phenomena - some drivers of city busses take on
this attitude that they are large slow juggernauts that can intimidate the
traffic around them and they know that they can pull out of a bus stop into
traffic and cause any cars around them to divert or brake - afterall
getting a scratch or dent on the side of your bus is not such a big deal
(though you really don't want that) - but if it's your car that's
upsetting.

These few bus drivers, or 18 wheeler drivers get this sense that it's their
road and you -must- yield, even if you have to drive into someone's yard,
or stop.

Having acquired this 'sense' of juggernautery g, it's extremely easy to
transefer to a little biker - there is probably a feeling that you are just
a cartoon to be bumped aside - I doubt they imagine you actually getting
hurt and mangled - it would be cartoon blood and they'd grab your foot like
the roadrunner cartoon and blowy you back up to normal size.

So-o-o it's best to be forewarned and not put yourself in a vulnerable
position around them. Frank'scomment II think) to take the center of the
auto lane and then merge back after the light is a good one and I use this
also. I get right out in front of them and puff up to full 230lb
bodybuilder size and get 'seen'. ;-) Uh, I also know that sometimes I have
to get out of their way, or even ride up a sidestreet to let the threat
pass.

Glad you weren't hurt.

jj

Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:40:56 -0400, ,
Joe Canuck wrote, in part:


Unfortunately, where I come from motorists also seem to think they can
try to beat the pedestrians waiting to cross at the light when they try
to turn after waiting for the light.

Monday I almost got wiped by a chrome and vanity plated Hummer while
crossing in a cross walk. They didn't feel like waiting for a guy on
crutches. Their left-turn was more important. I could have reached out
and touched her shiny black scud. She'd have creamed a car had there
been one approaching the intersection on the side street I was
crossing. She had to go into their lane to cut me off so you know that
I was fully occupying the x-walk before she started her turn.

BTW, The BC vanity plate read "MAGGIE".
--
zk

"jj" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:15:06 -0400, "lokey" wrote:

SNIP

I've also experienced this phenomena - some drivers of city busses take on
this attitude that they are large slow juggernauts that can intimidate the
traffic around them and they know that they can pull out of a bus stop
into
traffic and cause any cars around them to divert or brake - afterall
getting a scratch or dent on the side of your bus is not such a big deal
(though you really don't want that) - but if it's your car that's
upsetting.


In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

Zoot Katz wrote:

Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:40:56 -0400, ,
Joe Canuck wrote, in part:


Unfortunately, where I come from motorists also seem to think they can
try to beat the pedestrians waiting to cross at the light when they try
to turn after waiting for the light.

Monday I almost got wiped by a chrome and vanity plated Hummer while
crossing in a cross walk. They didn't feel like waiting for a guy on
crutches. Their left-turn was more important. I could have reached out
and touched her shiny black scud. She'd have creamed a car had there
been one approaching the intersection on the side street I was
crossing. She had to go into their lane to cut me off so you know that
I was fully occupying the x-walk before she started her turn.

BTW, The BC vanity plate read "MAGGIE".

In the apocalyptic scourge, she goes first.

I was going to begin with HUMMER drivers anyway . . .

Incidentally, was she selling Prada knock-offs?

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:13:38 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
wrote:


"jj" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:15:06 -0400, "lokey" wrote:

SNIP

I've also experienced this phenomena - some drivers of city busses take on
this attitude that they are large slow juggernauts that can intimidate the
traffic around them and they know that they can pull out of a bus stop
into
traffic and cause any cars around them to divert or brake - afterall
getting a scratch or dent on the side of your bus is not such a big deal
(though you really don't want that) - but if it's your car that's
upsetting.


In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

Um, this isn't really addressing the bad behavior of some bus drivers and
the transfer of this 'attitude' or delusion onto interactions with
cyclists, is it?

IMO, it's better for the big guy to look out for and yield to the little
guy in the street.

When you say 'your area' do you mean your city has a specific law to yield
to all busses? What if a cyclist can not yield at the time - does this give
the bus driver a legal right or tip the scales in the driver's benefit?

May I suggest you examine the wording and intent of the actual law, b/c
this seems to be an all around 'bad idea'. FWIW, I do think that a majority
of bus drivers -do- look out for cars and pedestrians and cyclists
-despite- what 'right' to pull out into already moving traffic that city
ordinance has given them. Further this doesn't absolve a cyclist from
taking prudent actions. I only bring in the bus-car interaction as a way to
explain the development of this 'attitude' that some bus drivers may
exhibit towards cyclists. Heh, why do I have to have an explanation? Well
guess it's a little hard for me to understand how big steel container
drivers feel threatened and need to act out towards harmless things trying
to share the road - so I've postulated a chain of events.

jj

"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
...

In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

I am familiar with these types of bylaws. In my case the bus was not
pulling into traffic from a stop. He was making a right turn at a light.
And as described I doubt any jurisdiction gives the bus driver the right to
right turn before the light has changed.

--
'I can pull up by the curb
I can make it on the road
Going mobile' -the who

"jj" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:13:38 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
wrote:
[...]
In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.
[...]
When you say 'your area' do you mean your city has a specific law to yield
to all busses? What if a cyclist can not yield at the time - does this
give
the bus driver a legal right or tip the scales in the driver's benefit?

If it is like the ones I'm aware of: A bus pulling into traffic from a bus
stop has the right-of-way and other vehicles must cede that right to allow
it to return to traffic rather than the usual rule where the vehicle trying
to pull into traffic has to wait for an opening and the through traffic has
the right-of-way.

May I suggest you examine the wording and intent of the actual law, b/c
this seems to be an all around 'bad idea'.

It gives a precedence to public transit which I agree with.

However I reiterate: this was not the situation in my case. The bus was not
pulling into traffic from a bus stop. He was making a right turn without
ceding to the vehicle in the bike lane as well as anticipating the light.

--
'What's an aptitude test?'
'A suitability test, Ricky'
'I'll wear a suit if I have to.'
-from the trailer park boys

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:36:24 -0400, "lokey" wrote:


"jj" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:13:38 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
wrote:
[...]
In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.
[...]
When you say 'your area' do you mean your city has a specific law to yield
to all busses? What if a cyclist can not yield at the time - does this
give the bus driver a legal right or tip the scales in the driver's benefit?

If it is like the ones I'm aware of: A bus pulling into traffic from a bus
stop has the right-of-way and other vehicles must cede that right to allow
it to return to traffic rather than the usual rule where the vehicle trying
to pull into traffic has to wait for an opening and the through traffic has
the right-of-way.

Huh? To do this - give a bus an automatic right-of-way you'dhave to equip
it with a siren and flashing lights. This is what works for emergency
vehicles. But busses don't have this. OK, I kid a little - the obvious way
to do this would be better city planning and better bus-stop design. But
when you say usual rule you seem to be saying like all vehicles pulling out
into traffic it's up to -them- to yield - it's mostly physics - moving
vehicles and inertia vs stopped vehicles and time.

May I suggest you examine the wording and intent of the actual law, b/c
this seems to be an all around 'bad idea'.

It gives a precedence to public transit which I agree with.

While I like public transit, I wouldn't impose a law that's counter to the
ways that merging bodys safely merge.

However I reiterate: this was not the situation in my case. The bus was not
pulling into traffic from a bus stop. He was making a right turn without
ceding to the vehicle in the bike lane as well as anticipating the light.

I hate saying this but the vehicle in the bike lane, if stopped would be
the more obvious of the two to cede, maybe... Plus now you know that you
must take the traffic lane, then merge back into the bike lane to be safe
in admittedly tricky situations like this, with bad engineering design (I
think you were kinda setup to get hooked with this kind of design. I'm just
relieved you weren't moving into the intersection as the light popped green
- then you probably would have had a dangerous situation develop maybe
faster than you could react.)

But you're right. I did get off on a tangent. My bad. (you can guess what
kind of scary situations we have where I live where the busses cut into
and dive out of the narrow bike lanes to drop off passengers as cyclists
dive for cover). ;-)

-B

"jj" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:36:24 -0400, "lokey" wrote:
"jj" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:13:38 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
wrote:
[...]
In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.
[...]
When you say 'your area' do you mean your city has a specific law to
yield
to all busses? What if a cyclist can not yield at the time - does this
give the bus driver a legal right or tip the scales in the driver's
benefit?

If it is like the ones I'm aware of: A bus pulling into traffic from a
bus
stop has the right-of-way and other vehicles must cede that right to allow
it to return to traffic rather than the usual rule where the vehicle
trying
to pull into traffic has to wait for an opening and the through traffic
has
the right-of-way.

Huh? To do this - give a bus an automatic right-of-way you'dhave to equip
it with a siren and flashing lights. This is what works for emergency
vehicles. But busses don't have this. OK, I kid a little - the obvious way
to do this would be better city planning and better bus-stop design. But
when you say usual rule you seem to be saying like all vehicles pulling
out
into traffic it's up to -them- to yield - it's mostly physics - moving
vehicles and inertia vs stopped vehicles and time.

Legality. Maybe Bob Hunt would like to chime in but:

If Car A is pulling into traffic from a stop and is hit by through-traffic
Car B, then Car A is considered to be at fault.

With this Bus Bylaw: If Bus C is pulling into traffic from a bus stop and
is hit by through-traffic Car D then Car D is at fault.

I dunno what the legality would be if Car D is also a bus.



[...]
I hate saying this but the vehicle in the bike lane, if stopped would be
the more obvious of the two to cede, maybe...

I agree, and I did cede and not ride into the turning bus. I have a
personal motto in such instances: 'I'd rather be alive than right'.

But in this case I think the bus driver committed two infractions: Making
an unsafe right turn, cutting off another vehicle [Me], and starting his
turn before the light changed.

--
'Television is a weapon of mass distraction.'
-larry gelbart