Use MTB frame as basis for road bike a la Long/Low or XO?

I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks to be
in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped out. I was
thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/road/commuter
bike with some hand-me-downs from my race bike and I guess a few new
bits and pieces. It will look kind of wierd I guess since I ride a
pretty big road frame, but that's OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low or
Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and fenders
around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop bars and a nice
set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy racing parts thrown in
for good measure.
I know nothing about frame geometry, so before I do this I am just
wondering if this is a bad idea.


--
davidd86

"davidd86" wrote:

I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks
to be in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped
out. I was thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/
road/commuter bike with some hand-me-downs from my race
bike and I guess a few new bits and pieces. It will look kind
of wierd I guess since I ride a pretty big road frame, but that's
OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low

(ITYM All-Rounder or Atlantis)

or Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and
fenders around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop
bars and a nice set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy
racing parts thrown in for good measure. I know nothing about
frame geometry, so before I do this I am just wondering if this is
a bad idea.

Not a bad idea at all. I have two such bikes (a 1992 Stumpjumper, and a
1994 Kona Kilauea), and I find them robust, comfortable, agile, practical,
and a lot of fun to ride.

Getting the bars high enough and close enough can be a problem. MTBs of the
vintage you're discussing had shorter top tubes relative to seat tube size
than modern MTBs, but pre-suspension-corrected forks and short head tubes
can make the front end quite low - probably 3 or 4 inches below the height
of a road bike of similar top tube length. A long quill stem (e.g. a Nitto
Technomic) can help, but can be unpleasantly flexible. I was lucky to find
a used Sycip threadless fork with lowrider bosses that was a good match for
my Stumpjumper.

Gear and brake controls can require some thought, but present no
insurmountable problems.

This page discusses the conversion of a Stumpjumper, including the fitting
of S&S frame couplings:

http://briandesousa.com/bicycling/tech/convert.htm

Here's a Ritchey with a long quill stem:

http://www.oldmountainbikes.com/cgi-....cgi?bike=1873

And here's a beautiful WTB Phoenix - not a conversion per se, but it might
provide some inspiration:

http://homepage.mac.com/halaburt/bic...toAlbum20.html

Good luck.

James Thomson

davidd86 wrote in message ...
I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks to be
in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped out. I was
thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/road/commuter
bike with some hand-me-downs from my race bike and I guess a few new
bits and pieces. It will look kind of wierd I guess since I ride a
pretty big road frame, but that's OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low or
Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and fenders
around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop bars and a nice
set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy racing parts thrown in
for good measure.
I know nothing about frame geometry, so before I do this I am just
wondering if this is a bad idea.

A bike project is never a bad idea it is just more time consuming and
more expensive that you originally thought!!

davidd86 wrote:

I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks to be
in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped out. I was
thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/road/commuter
bike with some hand-me-downs from my race bike and I guess a few new
bits and pieces. It will look kind of wierd I guess since I ride a
pretty big road frame, but that's OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low or
Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and fenders
around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop bars and a nice
set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy racing parts thrown in
for good measure.
I know nothing about frame geometry, so before I do this I am just
wondering if this is a bad idea.

It seems that somewhere around the late '80s, some MTBs switched from a
really relaxed geometry to a shorter, tighter geometry. I had an 80's
vintage Schwinn MTB with the front wheel so far out it might have come
from Orange County Choppers. I also had an early 90's Bridgestone MTB
that had a geometry more like a road bike.

Your converted bike will work just fine, although you're certain to have
a few hiccups like matching the brakes to appropriate levers. The
handling (as always) depends on the geometry. If you liked the bike's
handling off-road, you'll probably like it on the road.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Well, I did it over the weekend. Seems to work well. The only problem I
ran into was minor: I learned that the chainstays on a MTB are wider
than they are on a road bike, so as to accommodate the fat tires. The
crankset I used was a hand-me-down Campy Chorus 53/39 from my race
machine. It did not fit on with the standard Campy 111 BB -- the
chainrings were rubbing on the chainstay. So I went back to the store
and it seems there's also a 115.5 Campy BB -- tried that and all was
well. I suppose it throws the chainline off slightly but it shifts very
well just the same. The Q factor goes up I guess but you can't tell.

The interesting thing about it is, I rigged it up with my old 12/23
Campy 8-speed setup for the race bike. When I pulled out my calculator,
I was delighted to see that on a 26" bike, this is exactly like using a
13/26 on a 700c bike -- which is right on the money for what you want
on a commuter, etc. The double chainring should be OK.

For the stem, casting an eye around my boxes of old bike parts, the
only thing I could think of to get the bars up there was to use an old
Giant adjustable stem. Unfortunately it was threadless so I ended up
spending $38 for a new rigid threadless fork and $21 for a threadless
headset. But that clearly solved the problem -- I set it up exactly the
same as my race bike but with the bars 2cm raised, plus I used
short-drop bars instead of the super deep ones on the race bike.

Seems to ride just fine. I wouldn't say the handling's as sharp as the
race bike. Not bad though. It probably looks silly for a 6'-2" guy to
be riding on little MTB wheels, but I'll get over it.

I will put up a picture at some point; it really came out to be pretty
snazzy, and even more fun is that it is about 95% old road bike parts.
I basically had to buy bar tape, cables, pay to have my old MTB rims
laced to my road hubs, get some narrower tires, I scored a used Schmidt
generator hub, and the one thing I sprang for new was a front Nitto
rack. Everything else was made by mongrelizing stuff that was laying
around.






dvt Wrote:
davidd86 wrote:

I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks to be
in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped out. I was
thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/road/commuter
bike with some hand-me-downs from my race bike and I guess a few new
bits and pieces. It will look kind of wierd I guess since I ride a
pretty big road frame, but that's OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low or
Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and fenders
around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop bars and a
nice
set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy racing parts thrown in
for good measure.
I know nothing about frame geometry, so before I do this I am just
wondering if this is a bad idea.

It seems that somewhere around the late '80s, some MTBs switched from a
really relaxed geometry to a shorter, tighter geometry. I had an 80's
vintage Schwinn MTB with the front wheel so far out it might have come
from Orange County Choppers. I also had an early 90's Bridgestone MTB
that had a geometry more like a road bike.

Your converted bike will work just fine, although you're certain to
have
a few hiccups like matching the brakes to appropriate levers. The
handling (as always) depends on the geometry. If you liked the bike's
handling off-road, you'll probably like it on the road.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu


--
davidd86

davidd86 wrote:
Well, I did it over the weekend. Seems to work well.

Congrats on the conversion. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

The only problem I
ran into was minor: I learned that the chainstays on a MTB are wider
than they are on a road bike, so as to accommodate the fat tires. The
crankset I used was a hand-me-down Campy Chorus 53/39 from my race
machine. It did not fit on with the standard Campy 111 BB -- the
chainrings were rubbing on the chainstay. So I went back to the store
and it seems there's also a 115.5 Campy BB -- tried that and all was
well. I suppose it throws the chainline off slightly but it shifts very
well just the same. The Q factor goes up I guess but you can't tell.

One other possible solution is to use the MTB crank with the inner ring
removed. You might be able to use a narrower BB and still clear the
chainstays. You'll end up with lower gears, natch.

I basically had to buy bar tape, cables, pay to have my old MTB rims
laced to my road hubs, get some narrower tires, I scored a used Schmidt
generator hub, and the one thing I sprang for new was a front Nitto
rack. Everything else was made by mongrelizing stuff that was laying
around.

Why did you relace the wheels? Why couldn't you use the old MTB hubs? If
we're talking Shimano MTB and Shimano road hubs, you should be able to
slip a 12-23 on the MTB hub. But since you mention Campy cranks/BB,
maybe you're using Campy in the back as well...

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Dave, my old MTB hubs were pretty manky, coupled with being really cheap
and really ugly and I had a really svelte Campa 8-speed rear along with
a Schmidt dyno front, so I just had the wheels re-laced. The rear
spacing on this frame was ~132mm so it could've gone either way without
too much heartburn. (You're right though; on my race bike I've had good
luck with a Shimano wheel with Campy-width spacers between the cogs ...
certainly workable.)

Things are fine with the cranks ... they feel pretty much like any
others ... I don't think I'd want to put an MTB crankset on there as I
reckon the gearing would be too low. I suspect this will mostly be
used for fairly fast road riding or paths ... nothing too far removed
from civilization ...

One thing that pleasantly shocked me was how easy it is to set up the
standard Shimano canti brakes. They just go right on there and are
very cleverly designed.




dvt Wrote:
davidd86 wrote:
Well, I did it over the weekend. Seems to work well.

Congrats on the conversion. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

The only problem I
ran into was minor: I learned that the chainstays on a MTB are wider
than they are on a road bike, so as to accommodate the fat tires. The
crankset I used was a hand-me-down Campy Chorus 53/39 from my race
machine. It did not fit on with the standard Campy 111 BB -- the
chainrings were rubbing on the chainstay. So I went back to the store
and it seems there's also a 115.5 Campy BB -- tried that and all was
well. I suppose it throws the chainline off slightly but it shifts
very
well just the same. The Q factor goes up I guess but you can't tell.

One other possible solution is to use the MTB crank with the inner ring
removed. You might be able to use a narrower BB and still clear the
chainstays. You'll end up with lower gears, natch.

I basically had to buy bar tape, cables, pay to have my old MTB rims
laced to my road hubs, get some narrower tires, I scored a used
Schmidt
generator hub, and the one thing I sprang for new was a front Nitto
rack. Everything else was made by mongrelizing stuff that was laying
around.

Why did you relace the wheels? Why couldn't you use the old MTB hubs?
If
we're talking Shimano MTB and Shimano road hubs, you should be able to
slip a 12-23 on the MTB hub. But since you mention Campy cranks/BB,
maybe you're using Campy in the back as well...

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu


--
davidd86

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
davidd86 wrote:

I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks to be
in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped out. I was
thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/road/commuter
bike with some hand-me-downs from my race bike and I guess a few new
bits and pieces. It will look kind of wierd I guess since I ride a
pretty big road frame, but that's OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low or
Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and fenders
around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop bars and a nice
set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy racing parts thrown in
for good measure.
I know nothing about frame geometry, so before I do this I am just
wondering if this is a bad idea.



_ It's a great idea if you got the parts and time. I built a bike
like this for fire road touring, but I ended up riding it a lot
more than just on dirt roads. There's nothing like big fat slicks
for enjoying life on a bicycle...

_ BTW, for others that might try this. If you want to stick with
a threaded headset, I recommend getting a Nitto DirtDrop stem[1].
If even that's not high enough, Soma made a quill to threadless
stem adapter that sticks up at least 6 inchs above the headset.
The part number is Q-82.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- http://rivendellbicycles.com/webalog...ape/16007.html


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Indeed, I took it out today for a loooooong ride and I love this bike.
Much heavier than my race bike but I don't race any more so who cares.
I am a bit surprised that they don't really sell bikes like this -- it's
just so practical and bombproof, but quick too. I would post a picture
of it but I'm not sure how to do that ... I don't have a web site.




Booker C. Bense Wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
davidd86 wrote:

I have an old rigid/rigid late-80s Italian MTB. The frame looks to be
in really good nick, but the components are pretty clapped out. I was
thinking of making it into a 26" "rough stuff" touring/road/commuter
bike with some hand-me-downs from my race bike and I guess a few new
bits and pieces. It will look kind of wierd I guess since I ride a
pretty big road frame, but that's OK with me.

I'm thinking I could make a low-discount Rivendell Long/Low or
Bridgestone XO -- that kind of thing. I.e., use slicks and fenders
around town, and wide knobbies for offroad stuff. Drop bars and a nice
set of pannier racks, with some cool old Campy racing parts thrown in
for good measure.
I know nothing about frame geometry, so before I do this I am just
wondering if this is a bad idea.



_ It's a great idea if you got the parts and time. I built a bike
like this for fire road touring, but I ended up riding it a lot
more than just on dirt roads. There's nothing like big fat slicks
for enjoying life on a bicycle...

_ BTW, for others that might try this. If you want to stick with
a threaded headset, I recommend getting a Nitto DirtDrop stem[1].
If even that's not high enough, Soma made a quill to threadless
stem adapter that sticks up at least 6 inchs above the headset.
The part number is Q-82.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]-
http://rivendellbicycles.com/webalog...ape/16007.html


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--
davidd86

Scratch that, I figured it out: here's a pictu


[image:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dduqu...s22%20002.JPG]


--
davidd86