37 hour days in Massachusetts

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" wrote in message
...
MagillaGorilla wrote:

Brian,

Great response from an attorney who thinks that Tyler Hamilton's due
process hearing is just a formality.


Has Brian been retained by Hamilton?
Congratulations, Brian!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Yeah. Haven called and said something about getting a check from some fan we
site.

On 11/15/2004 11:36 AM, in article ,
"MagillaGorilla" wrote:

You take away Lance Armstrong and Postal, and
TREK as a company would likely be nothing like it is today. They could
have never started Bontrager.


And here I thought that Keith Bontrager started Bontrager way back when,
before selling it (and himself) to Trek.



--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

On 11/15/2004 11:36 AM, in article ,
"MagillaGorilla" wrote:

You take away Lance Armstrong and Postal, and
TREK as a company would likely be nothing like it is today. They could
have never started Bontrager.


And here I thought that Keith Bontrager started Bontrager way back when,
before selling it (and himself) to Trek.



--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

TritonRider wrote:
From: MagillaGorilla


I will answer your question with the following statement: pro cycling
and bike racing and all the satellite companies they support probably
equates to a billion dollar industry.


Here are some facts:
http://nbda.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=34


These are general bike sales that will happen regardless of whether or
not the sport of pro cycling (aka "entertainment") exists or doesn't
exist. So why post a link liek this unless you're prepared to elaborate
on its relevance to the debate we were having?

Oh, I forgot, that debate is more than two sentences, so it will never
happen.

Magilla

TritonRider wrote:
From: MagillaGorilla


I will answer your question with the following statement: pro cycling
and bike racing and all the satellite companies they support probably
equates to a billion dollar industry.


Here are some facts:
http://nbda.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=34


These are general bike sales that will happen regardless of whether or
not the sport of pro cycling (aka "entertainment") exists or doesn't
exist. So why post a link liek this unless you're prepared to elaborate
on its relevance to the debate we were having?

Oh, I forgot, that debate is more than two sentences, so it will never
happen.

Magilla

TritonRider wrote:

From: MagillaGorilla


I will answer your question with the following statement: pro cycling
and bike racing and all the satellite companies they support probably
equates to a billion dollar industry.


Here are some facts:
http://nbda.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=34



Your argument is irrelevant


I disagree. We are talking about how "important" cycling is. You chose to say
that it's important because of the business it generates. BTW that was much
higher than your guess.
It's still a drop in the bucket of GNP.
http://www.forecasts.org/gnp.htm
Here's a little perspective:
http://www.bls.gov/iag/leisurehosp.htm

Extracted:
Data from the Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages program show that, in
the economy as a whole:

arts, entertainment, and recreation represents about 1.4 percent of all
employment and about 1.3 percent of all establishments;

All of that was 1.4% how big a chunk of that do you think cycling is?


Your comparison of total bike sales to the sport of professional cycling
(so-called "entertainment" value as an industry) is way too broad. If
you eliminated the sport of pro cycling tomorrow, the industry would
still sell $5.1 billion of those bike sales worldwide.

So my estimate was not off - you are misrepresenting my argument and
then claiming I made a mistake. I was NEVER talking about total bike
sales, douchebag.

And obviously, I didn't want to turn this discussion into a spreadsheet
because it was unnecessary to do so.

My point was that cycling is NOT just entertainment as you and Henrietta
keep saying everytime the subject of doping comes up. It's a
combination of numerous linked industries and businesses: marketing,
sales, machine shop welding, tool dyes, shipping (UPS/FedEx), OLN,
commercials, video production companies, clothing manufacturing,
photography, bike sales, news reporting, airlines, hotel reservations,
graphic design, printers, etc.

I could probably list 50 more but I don't see the point on beating a
dead horse. It's obvious professional cycling is NOT just entertainment
and that you and Henrietta are simpletons for saying that.

After I explained this to you, you then conceded that is was only 3
things: "arts, entertainment, and recreation"..and then went on to say
how all of that [incomplete] list comprises only 1.4% of GNP.

First of all, the list is much more extensive than those three and
probably doesn't even include "recreation" because we're talking about
pro cycling and not recreational cycling (Remember the premise of this
discussion? It was based on a doping issue and how the law doesn't care
about enforcing doping in cycling because "it's just entertainment" and
how the sport's existence can be defined as NOTHING but entertainment.
These arguments are all wrong.)

And second, if it were 1.4% of GNP, any economist worth their salt would
tell you that is HUGE amount both dollar wise and absolute amount wise.
You tried to imply that 1.4% is small.

Dude, you need to get an education and then come back here and bring
something intelligent to the table besides misrepresentations and
misunderstandings.

Thanks,

Magilla















Magilla

TritonRider wrote:

From: MagillaGorilla


I will answer your question with the following statement: pro cycling
and bike racing and all the satellite companies they support probably
equates to a billion dollar industry.


Here are some facts:
http://nbda.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=34



Your argument is irrelevant


I disagree. We are talking about how "important" cycling is. You chose to say
that it's important because of the business it generates. BTW that was much
higher than your guess.
It's still a drop in the bucket of GNP.
http://www.forecasts.org/gnp.htm
Here's a little perspective:
http://www.bls.gov/iag/leisurehosp.htm

Extracted:
Data from the Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages program show that, in
the economy as a whole:

arts, entertainment, and recreation represents about 1.4 percent of all
employment and about 1.3 percent of all establishments;

All of that was 1.4% how big a chunk of that do you think cycling is?


Your comparison of total bike sales to the sport of professional cycling
(so-called "entertainment" value as an industry) is way too broad. If
you eliminated the sport of pro cycling tomorrow, the industry would
still sell $5.1 billion of those bike sales worldwide.

So my estimate was not off - you are misrepresenting my argument and
then claiming I made a mistake. I was NEVER talking about total bike
sales, douchebag.

And obviously, I didn't want to turn this discussion into a spreadsheet
because it was unnecessary to do so.

My point was that cycling is NOT just entertainment as you and Henrietta
keep saying everytime the subject of doping comes up. It's a
combination of numerous linked industries and businesses: marketing,
sales, machine shop welding, tool dyes, shipping (UPS/FedEx), OLN,
commercials, video production companies, clothing manufacturing,
photography, bike sales, news reporting, airlines, hotel reservations,
graphic design, printers, etc.

I could probably list 50 more but I don't see the point on beating a
dead horse. It's obvious professional cycling is NOT just entertainment
and that you and Henrietta are simpletons for saying that.

After I explained this to you, you then conceded that is was only 3
things: "arts, entertainment, and recreation"..and then went on to say
how all of that [incomplete] list comprises only 1.4% of GNP.

First of all, the list is much more extensive than those three and
probably doesn't even include "recreation" because we're talking about
pro cycling and not recreational cycling (Remember the premise of this
discussion? It was based on a doping issue and how the law doesn't care
about enforcing doping in cycling because "it's just entertainment" and
how the sport's existence can be defined as NOTHING but entertainment.
These arguments are all wrong.)

And second, if it were 1.4% of GNP, any economist worth their salt would
tell you that is HUGE amount both dollar wise and absolute amount wise.
You tried to imply that 1.4% is small.

Dude, you need to get an education and then come back here and bring
something intelligent to the table besides misrepresentations and
misunderstandings.

Thanks,

Magilla















Magilla

TritonRider wrote:

From: MagillaGorilla


Show me where I lied about anything. I expressed an opinion that I feel quite
capable of defending on it's merits. You disagree.
If everything that is bicycle related in the US disappeared tomorrow it would
not be the end of the country or even a massive blow.
Here's some comparison with 9/11:


Bill C


You and Henrietta lied because both of you said cycling is nothing but
an industry of entertainment. And you failed to acknowledge all the
other industries, businesses, and employees linked to pro cycling.

So to say that is pro cycling were decimated, and that it doesn't matter
because it's "just an entertainment industry" is totally wrong.

I believe the original context was that prosecutors and courts don't
enforce doping in cycling because it's "just entertainment."

That argument is likewise wrong. Prosecutors would enforce any illegal
act regardless of whether or not it involves the entertainment industry
or not.

If you tell a prosecutor that you got EPO without a prescription he
probably will prosecute you. And the reason why they don't isn't
because "it's just entertainment," but because there's really not a huge
amount of illegal activity in the sport, so it doesn't call any
attention to it. One or two guys on all the pro teams taking 1 to 2
vials of EPO is hardly worth doing a sting operation on.

Obviously the police in Europe feel differently because the volume of
drug trafficking is more significant than here in the U.S.

So you and Henrietta lied by saying pro cycling is "just an
entertainment industry."

Magilla

TritonRider wrote:

From: MagillaGorilla


Show me where I lied about anything. I expressed an opinion that I feel quite
capable of defending on it's merits. You disagree.
If everything that is bicycle related in the US disappeared tomorrow it would
not be the end of the country or even a massive blow.
Here's some comparison with 9/11:


Bill C


You and Henrietta lied because both of you said cycling is nothing but
an industry of entertainment. And you failed to acknowledge all the
other industries, businesses, and employees linked to pro cycling.

So to say that is pro cycling were decimated, and that it doesn't matter
because it's "just an entertainment industry" is totally wrong.

I believe the original context was that prosecutors and courts don't
enforce doping in cycling because it's "just entertainment."

That argument is likewise wrong. Prosecutors would enforce any illegal
act regardless of whether or not it involves the entertainment industry
or not.

If you tell a prosecutor that you got EPO without a prescription he
probably will prosecute you. And the reason why they don't isn't
because "it's just entertainment," but because there's really not a huge
amount of illegal activity in the sport, so it doesn't call any
attention to it. One or two guys on all the pro teams taking 1 to 2
vials of EPO is hardly worth doing a sting operation on.

Obviously the police in Europe feel differently because the volume of
drug trafficking is more significant than here in the U.S.

So you and Henrietta lied by saying pro cycling is "just an
entertainment industry."

Magilla