No Winner--Fixing the Tour

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...no_winner.html

".......A partial return to national teams, as proposed by the Tour
organisers? That might play its part, if only to rein in the rampant
commercialism that has contributed to the current free-for-all, to make the
point to professional teams that there is an alternative. Part of the
problem, it seems, is that some teams think the race won't function without
them. They need to get the message that it can. Next year, if the Tour
organisers have any bottle, maybe it will.

Putting on national colours won't stop doping just like that - Tom Simpson
died in a GB jersey, lest we forget - but it would cut the ties with the
doping infrastructure that must travel with some of the teams. Arguably,
without the finance and the structure (doctors, couriers etc) it would be
harder to dope.

There are other measures: blood testing up to 30 minutes before the start.
Ramping up out-of-competition tests. Hammering Wada to push through the
human growth hormone test and a way of detecting heterologous blood
transfusions. Appointing a neutral doping control officer-cum-detective to
each team..........."

On Aug 1, 7:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...s_tour_has_no_...

".......A partial return to national teams, as proposed by the Tour
organisers? That might play its part, if only to rein in the rampant
commercialism that has contributed to the current free-for-all, to make the
point to professional teams that there is an alternative. Part of the
problem, it seems, is that some teams think the race won't function without
them. They need to get the message that it can. Next year, if the Tour
organisers have any bottle, maybe it will.

Putting on national colours won't stop doping just like that - Tom Simpson
died in a GB jersey, lest we forget - but it would cut the ties with the
doping infrastructure that must travel with some of the teams. Arguably,
without the finance and the structure (doctors, couriers etc) it would be
harder to dope.

There are other measures: blood testing up to 30 minutes before the start.
Ramping up out-of-competition tests. Hammering Wada to push through the
human growth hormone test and a way of detecting heterologous blood
transfusions. Appointing a neutral doping control officer-cum-detective to
each team..........."

Yep, ramapnt commercialism definitely drove the doping by the Chinese
and E. German Olympic teams. There was definitely no organized
infrastructure provided to those athletes.
Once again we have a steaming pile of fertilizer being provided by
the Guardian.
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.
Bill C

Bill C wrote:
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

Lenin is into formaldehyde.

"Donald Munro" wrote in message
om...
Bill C wrote:
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

Lenin is into formaldehyde.

And looks more like a Talosian than Rasmussen

Bill C wrote:

Yep, ramapnt commercialism definitely drove the doping by the Chinese
and E. German Olympic teams.

The US National team practiced blood doping (legal at the time) in the 1984 Olympics.

There's no reason to believe national teams will do anything other than improve Italy's chances, finally.

Dan

On Aug 1, 8:35 am, Dan Connelly
wrote:
Bill C wrote:
Yep, ramapnt commercialism definitely drove the doping by the Chinese
and E. German Olympic teams.

The US National team practiced blood doping (legal at the time) in the 1984 Olympics.

There's no reason to believe national teams will do anything other than improve Italy's chances, finally.

Dan

Yep, they did. The idea that National teams are somehow more ethical
than trade teams is ridiculous. Additionally, States have much larger
resources to dedicate to making the doping more sophisticated, and
defending their athletes.
This got sent along to me and is better than the Guardian piece:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ge=hill/070731

Bill C

Dan Connelly wrote:
There's no reason to believe national teams will do anything other than
improve Italy's chances, finally.

Italy will take over from Telekom as the most tactically astute team who
never chase down their own riders.

"Bill C" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 1, 7:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...s_tour_has_no_...

".......A partial return to national teams, as proposed by the Tour
organisers? That might play its part, if only to rein in the rampant
commercialism that has contributed to the current free-for-all, to make
the
point to professional teams that there is an alternative. Part of the
problem, it seems, is that some teams think the race won't function
without
them. They need to get the message that it can. Next year, if the Tour
organisers have any bottle, maybe it will.

Putting on national colours won't stop doping just like that - Tom
Simpson
died in a GB jersey, lest we forget - but it would cut the ties with the
doping infrastructure that must travel with some of the teams. Arguably,
without the finance and the structure (doctors, couriers etc) it would be
harder to dope.

There are other measures: blood testing up to 30 minutes before the
start.
Ramping up out-of-competition tests. Hammering Wada to push through the
human growth hormone test and a way of detecting heterologous blood
transfusions. Appointing a neutral doping control officer-cum-detective
to
each team..........."

Yep, ramapnt commercialism definitely drove the doping by the Chinese
and E. German Olympic teams. There was definitely no organized
infrastructure provided to those athletes.

In those systems, the state acts as a substitute for western commercialism.
Foteringham said that national teams were only part of a possible solution.
I think his point that national teams would make it more difficult (albeit,
not impossible) logisticaly to dope is a good one. Combine that with on the
line testing and other suggestions and you might have a decent start in a
new ofensive against doping. To simply reject what WF writes because it is
in the Guardian is beneath your reasoning abilty Bill.


Once again we have a steaming pile of fertilizer being provided by
the Guardian.
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

I thought China was a laizze fair capitalist country. :-)

Bill C

Dan Connelly wrote:
There's no reason to believe national teams will do anything other than
improve Italy's chances, finally.

It'd be a boon to the French regional teams.

Bob Schwartz

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:06:18 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:


"Bill C" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Aug 1, 7:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...s_tour_has_no_...

".......A partial return to national teams, as proposed by the Tour
organisers? That might play its part, if only to rein in the rampant
commercialism that has contributed to the current free-for-all, to make
the
point to professional teams that there is an alternative. Part of the
problem, it seems, is that some teams think the race won't function
without
them. They need to get the message that it can. Next year, if the Tour
organisers have any bottle, maybe it will.

Putting on national colours won't stop doping just like that - Tom
Simpson
died in a GB jersey, lest we forget - but it would cut the ties with the
doping infrastructure that must travel with some of the teams. Arguably,
without the finance and the structure (doctors, couriers etc) it would be
harder to dope.

There are other measures: blood testing up to 30 minutes before the
start.
Ramping up out-of-competition tests. Hammering Wada to push through the
human growth hormone test and a way of detecting heterologous blood
transfusions. Appointing a neutral doping control officer-cum-detective
to
each team..........."

Yep, ramapnt commercialism definitely drove the doping by the Chinese
and E. German Olympic teams. There was definitely no organized
infrastructure provided to those athletes.

In those systems, the state acts as a substitute for western commercialism.
Foteringham said that national teams were only part of a possible solution.
I think his point that national teams would make it more difficult (albeit,
not impossible) logisticaly to dope is a good one.

Oh, bull****. If logistics were that big a hurdle jazz musicians would've had to
cancel European tours.

Combine that with on the
line testing and other suggestions and you might have a decent start in a
new ofensive against doping. To simply reject what WF writes because it is
in the Guardian is beneath your reasoning abilty Bill.

It's generally sensible to discount any opinion from them. I've marvelled at
their ability to report and write well and then derive an ideologically sound
conclusion that fails to follow the facts that were so well presented.

In any case National teams ain't gonna fix it. About all it does is direct more
power to ASO. THey have not been particularly deft in using what power they
have.

Ron

Once again we have a steaming pile of fertilizer being provided by
the Guardian.
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

I thought China was a laizze fair capitalist country. :-)

Bill C