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Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)



 
 
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  #61  
Old July 8th 12, 01:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
(PeteCresswell)
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Posts: 2,790
Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

Per "Tom $herman (-_-)"
":
Here in the US, some of the worst aggressive tailgaters are company
vans. Although why people getting paid by the hour are in such a
seeming hurry is a mystery.


I think it's something to do with the driver's position and the
lack of a hood. I've noticed at least one co-worker that
tailgates mercilessly driving a full-sized van but drives
normally in an automobile.
--
Pete Cresswell
Ads
  #62  
Old July 8th 12, 03:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
john B.
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Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:09:27 -0500, "Tom $herman (-_-)"
" wrote:

About 1% of the population is sociopaths. However, due to the way that
corporate and political advancement is achieved, the percentage of
national level politicians and corporate executives that are sociopaths
is likely well over 90%, to judge from their behavior.


Well, let's see how well you do. From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
In order to qualify as a genuine sociopath, you need to exhibit 3 of
the following 6 characteristics:

1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
Yep. You never seem to miss taking a pot shot at me and never
have any sympathy for my point of view.

2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for
social norms, rules, and obligations.
Yep. The norm in the newsgroup is to discuss bicycling, not
politics and personalities. A responsible person would at least
mention bicycling occasionally.

3. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no
difficulty in establishing them.
None of my business, so you get off free on this one.

4. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge
of aggression, including violence.
Dunno, but I suspect you have an effigy of me and the flag
of Israel on the wall, at which you throw darts to vent your
suppressed aggression.

5. Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience,
particularly punishment.
Yep. You never seem to agree with me, even though you know I'm
always right. Despite my instructions to you on righteous
behavior and correct thinking, I've obviously failed to make
an impression.

6. Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible
rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into
conflict with society.
Yep. By disagreeing with me, your logic and reasoning are
automatically labeled as rationalizations.

That's at least 4 out 6, which qualified you as a sociopath.
Congratulations.


Bingo! A description of the Monkey.

  #63  
Old July 8th 12, 05:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Tom $herman (-_-)
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Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

On 7/7/2012 6:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:48:06 -0500, "Tom $herman (-_-)"
" wrote:

On 7/4/2012 6:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Driving a motor vehicle does strange things to peoples minds. There's
an immediate 10 point drop in IQ. After an hour in heavy traffic, the
anger threshold level drops to about half of normal.[...]


That is why when I need to get somewhere quickly, and the roads are
snow/ice free, I *ride* a motor vehicle instead of drive one.


No you don't. Try this simple experiment. Take a stick and try to
"feel" something with it. You'll find that the stick becomes and
extension of your hand, and that you "feel" with the end of the stick.
It works because man has been carrying sticks for a few million years.

Today, when you get into a car, you become one with the machine, just
like with the stick. You "feel" the road through the body. Every
bump and pothole is felt by your body directly (as transferred through
the body of the vehicle). It's much the same as riding on a bike. You
"feel" the road.

You don't get quite the same sensation when you "ride" a bus or a
train. Although you might be in a similar seating position, because
you're not controlling the direction of travel and speed, you're not
really closely integrated with the bus or train. You feel the bumps,
but not as intimately as when you're driving and in control.

There's also the psychology wrapped around the feeling of power when
controlling so much horsepower. You can either be afraid of the
power, as some people are, or you can use it to your advantage, as
most people do. Very few treat driving as a passive experience. Those
that do, I consider somewhat dangerous as they're not really paying
attention to their driving.

Uh, no. I believe you misunderstand. Here is what I mostly ride to get
places within the urban area more quickly than a bicycle will go. With
all of 8.9 SAE net horsepower (which means about 7 HP or so at the rear
wheel) going to my head. Handling is almost bicycle quick, and
cornering is not bad when I put my feet back (by the PGM-FI logo) and
hang off the side. Much more involving than driving a cage.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/406927_2725085617821_1278153523_n.jpg

If you're in a hurry to get somewhere, you're much more likely to push
the limits of your control over the horsepower, than to passively
"ride" the machine.

This will bite hard (98 HP or so at the rear wheel) if ridden fast with
the same lack of skill and attention that most cagers give to their
vehicles.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/393618_2463600040845_1402575716_n.jpg

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!


  #64  
Old July 8th 12, 06:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 00:13:24 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
Cruiser Philosopher" wrote:

On Jul 7, 10:05*pm, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

(...)
That's at least 4 out 6, which qualified you as a sociopath.
Congratulations.


Bingo! A description of the Monkey.


I only hate people who hate people. So I'm off the hook.


I don't hate people, primarily because I've never tried eating people.
That also applies to the eating habits of most readers of this
newsgroup. That suggests that you hate everyone that reads this
newsgroup simply because they don't like eating people. Therefore,
you're a sociopath.

Do you hate yourself? If so, you also qualify.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #65  
Old July 9th 12, 01:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

On Jul 8, 2:55 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
wrote:

snip


But some of this... is real and some imaginary.


There's one of those odd moments of semi-lucidity.

snip
  #66  
Old July 14th 12, 02:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:21:02 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:13:07 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
> Cruiser &gt ; wrote:
>
>> Even in enlightened California, where I live and cycle, police
>> interpretation of the law often differs from that of cyclists. In
>> Santa Cruz a couple of weeks ago, the police chief told cyclists at a
>> recent meeting that they would cite cyclists for impeding traffic if
>> they take the lane on Mission Street, which has 11 foot lanes, and if
>> the cyclist disagrees with that interpretation he invited them to take
>> it to court for the judges to decide.
>
> Sheesh. That story was from May, 2008. Evolution does seem to be
> slow for you. As usual, this has nothing to do with bicycling tech.
>
> I live in Santa Crude and know something about the situation. Mission
> St is about 1.5 miles long and 3 lanes wide, with a center turn lane
> in places. I don't know the lane width but I know its sub-standard.
> It does have bike lanes in places, but not over the entire length. For
> cyclists, there are several parallel residential streets that are far
> safer than mixing with the cement trucks, buses, and tourists.
> Actually, I don't have much trouble riding on Mission St because the
> traffic is almost always bumper to bumper moving at about 10 mph. When
> it finally clears at night, it speeds up and becomes much more
> dangerous.
>
> There is one messy intersection, where Hwy 1 turns into Mission St,
> that requires cyclists to mix with traffic for about 20ft. There is
> an pedestrian overpass and a bike lane at this point, which leads to a
> parallel routes up King St or Bay St to the university. In other
> words, there's no good reason to "take the lane" unless you don't know
> about the alternate routes.
>
> If you look at the Google Maps of Mission St, you'll see that it's
> mostly State Hwy #1 for most of its length.
> <http://goo.gl/maps/7Vd8>
> Note that it's NOT designates as a suitable bicycle route.
>
> Along Mission St is Mission Hill middle skool, with a substantial
> bicycle population. Standing orders to the kids is to not ride on
> Mission Street.
>
> The city seems to have the attitude that since it spends considerable
> effort and expense on bike lanes and traffic management, then one
> would expect cyclists to favor these safer routes. However, if
> cyclists prefer to ignore these efforts on their behalf, the city
> could easily find better use for the money. While this is not an
> official position, I've heard at mentioned unofficially at a meeting
> by a former city council member.
>
> <http://sccrtc.org/services/bike/>

I'm not crazy about someone saying "You should ride the parallel
street," nor about "Google doesn't mark it as a suitable bike route." A
cyclist should have a right to the road, period. And if we rode only
what Google liked, we couldn't get to 90% of the places we might need to
ride.

--
- Frank Krygowski


I agree completely with Frank. It's time that we start changing the laws to give bicycles the same rights to the road as an automobile. Though perhaps with "be polite" parts to it.
  #67  
Old July 28th 12, 05:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Even in enlightened California (taking the lane)

On Jul 4, 7:10 pm, Dan O wrote:
On Jul 4, 12:32 pm, Phil W Lee wrote:

Jeff Liebermann considered Tue, 03 Jul 2012
23:27:20 -0700 the perfect time to write:


snip



I suspect that the local planners are into expediency. Give the
bicyclists an alternative route, and they will come.


snip


Unfortunately,
there are a few recalcitrants that prefer to live dangerously. You
can lead a bicyclist to water, but you have to practically drown them
before they'll learn to drink nicely.


Why should cyclists be forced to take long diversions because of a few
dangerous drivers?


Absolutely shouldn't. It should be purely a personal choice.

I ride some wicked stretches of hostile cagerland because it's the
most direct route, with plenty of miles and hours to ride already.
Really don't like it, and try to minimize it, but because of the city
layout with large tracts closed off and high security, a lot of
potential alternate routes nearby are difficult and even risky to
explore.


Whoa! Stop the presses! *Never* stop exploring alternate routes...
even where you have already tried.

The city in question has punched a new road through that large closed
off tract previously inaccessible for public travel - a wide, smooth,
road with gentle rolling slopes and curves and (so far in the several
times I've taken it) almost no traffic (I think it's primary purpose
is alternate access to a big institution, so I imagine most traffic is
work shift changes). This new route segment is very direct for my
destinations, pleasant and enjoyable, and opens up a world of
connections newly feasible to explore.

Most places aren't like that, though, and by being curious and
exploring possibilites with an open mind, not taking things like "Dead
End" road signs literally (until verified personally), I have found
many great alternate routes that not only avoid nearly all traffic,
but are often considerably *more* direct, *shorter* routes than the
busy streets, and/or more fun.

Alternate route "segments" inside the city inevitably come to
cagerland - at least to cross - and *sometimes* I even choose to ride
portions of cagerland because I get off on flying unimpeded through
and around their crazy stop-and-go saturated capacity cluster*&^$.


 




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