Need pictures of dorky bikes

"bomba" wrote in message
...
bloocow wrote:

Good for you. I'm looking to change over to a Sram rear derailleur but
its
hard to find an 8spd one. Currently doing without a front der, so soon
i'll
have a Shimanoless bike.

Remember that if you change to a SRAM rear mech, you'll need the
matching shifter.

Oh I didn't know that. I was initially considering XO rear mech and 9.0
shifters cus the XO don't come in 8 spd. One of my fav lbs' quoted quite
alot for the XO mech only cus most lbs' here prefer not to sell single
items. He preferred me to get mech n shifters for just a bit more so I think
I'll just get XO shifters n rear mech. It'll give me something to do for the
bike, adjusting the shifters to my 8 spd cassette.

bloocow

bloocow wrote:

Remember that if you change to a SRAM rear mech, you'll need the
matching shifter.


Oh I didn't know that. I was initially considering XO rear mech and 9.0
shifters cus the XO don't come in 8 spd.

That should be fine.

One of my fav lbs' quoted quite
alot for the XO mech only cus most lbs' here prefer not to sell single
items. He preferred me to get mech n shifters for just a bit more so I think
I'll just get XO shifters n rear mech. It'll give me something to do for the
bike, adjusting the shifters to my 8 spd cassette.

The rear shifting for SRAM and Shimano uses different ratios, so you
have to use SRAM mech and shifter together, or Shimano mech and shifter
together but you can't mix and match.

Conversly, SRAM don't make a front mech, so you can use either a Shimano
or SRAM shifter.

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

bloocow said...

Sorry, you're right. 8 spd and 9 spd derailleurs work the same. I was
thinking "8 spd Sram shifters are hard to find" but somehow it came out as
derailleur. Currently I'm using a jumpstop in place of a front derailleur
cus I have only 2 chainrings (middle,large) so I seldom shift the front.
Basically its middle ring for off road and large ring for road use. It takes
like a sec to manually move the chain up or down although you have to stop
riding and might get your hands/gloves dirty. For some reason I enjoy making
things difficult for myself.

bloocow

I read your latest responses on this thread and you either made some
typos or you have the wrong idea. You can't use 9sp shifters with an 8sp
cassette. Those are exactly what is not compatible. I seem to remember
some questions about the derailleur cog width in connection with using
8sp derailleurs with 9sp chains, but for the most part the derailleurs
are the same because 8sp and 9sp cassettes have the same width. 9sp cogs
are just closer together. How much the derailleur moves is determined by
the shifter. Sram derailleurs need Sram shifters for some reason that I
have never bothered to find out, since I have always used Shimano. You
will also need to match the chain with the cassette. IOW, 9sp chain
w/9sp cassette, 8sp chain w/8sp cassette. Chainrings might also be a
problem, although some chainrings are advertised as being usable with
either 8sp or 9sp.

Maybe we were a little too quick to point out the basic similarity
between 8sp and 9sp derailleurs. I would strongly recommend that you not
try to mix and match 8sp and 9sp components. Some combos may work, but
IMO you are asking for problems. I have enough trouble getting a noise-
free setup with an all Shimano 9sp system.

"Super Slinky" wrote in message
t...
bloocow said...

Sorry, you're right. 8 spd and 9 spd derailleurs work the same. I was
thinking "8 spd Sram shifters are hard to find" but somehow it came out
as
derailleur. Currently I'm using a jumpstop in place of a front
derailleur
cus I have only 2 chainrings (middle,large) so I seldom shift the front.
Basically its middle ring for off road and large ring for road use. It
takes
like a sec to manually move the chain up or down although you have to
stop
riding and might get your hands/gloves dirty. For some reason I enjoy
making
things difficult for myself.

bloocow

I read your latest responses on this thread and you either made some
typos or you have the wrong idea. You can't use 9sp shifters with an 8sp
cassette. Those are exactly what is not compatible. I seem to remember
some questions about the derailleur cog width in connection with using
8sp derailleurs with 9sp chains, but for the most part the derailleurs
are the same because 8sp and 9sp cassettes have the same width. 9sp cogs
are just closer together. How much the derailleur moves is determined by
the shifter. Sram derailleurs need Sram shifters for some reason that I
have never bothered to find out, since I have always used Shimano. You
will also need to match the chain with the cassette. IOW, 9sp chain
w/9sp cassette, 8sp chain w/8sp cassette. Chainrings might also be a
problem, although some chainrings are advertised as being usable with
either 8sp or 9sp.

Maybe we were a little too quick to point out the basic similarity
between 8sp and 9sp derailleurs. I would strongly recommend that you not
try to mix and match 8sp and 9sp components. Some combos may work, but
IMO you are asking for problems. I have enough trouble getting a noise-
free setup with an all Shimano 9sp system.

I did read about the shifting incompatibility between 8 and 9 spd. There was
however a thread I googled where someone mentioned that if you tune the
shifting starting with the middle of the cogs, the shifters could still
manage to shift quite smoothly. The guy argued that the cable pull
difference between 8 and 9 spd shifters was very small and therefore the
above might be possible. I hope to try that.

Agreed that the chain width would complicate things as well but if the above
works, then using a thicker (i.e. 8spd) chain would be better than using a 9
spd chain. Thats assuming I have enough 8 spd chains and cassettes. I'm
actually running Sram attack shifters with an XT rear D and they've worked
well enough. In fact I've only had thumb shifters on my first real bike,
which was many years ago.

The alternative to not doing the (possibly disastrous) setup above, would be
to get 8 spd shifters or change everything to 9 spd. For quite some time
now, most lbs' here have been telling me they don't sell 8 spd stuff
anymore. From what I know, its because the distributor here doesn't bring 8
spd stuff in anymore. If I were to order overseas, it would actually be
cheaper for me to change all to 9 spd. So unless I get lucky and find an 8
spd shifter within the next couple of weeks, I think I'll get the 9 spd
shifters.

Thanks for the clarification tho.

bloocow

"Chris Phillipo" wrote in message
.. .
There will always be a good supply of SRAM 5.0 8 speed cassettes and PC-
48 8 speed chains. That's the way to go if you want to keep 8 speed.
By the way, the reason SRAM ESP shifters only work with SRAM ESP
derailleurs is that they use a 1:1 ratio of cable movement at the
shifter to movement at the deraileur where as Shimano uses 2:1 which is
why Shimano typically has less leeway when it comes to cable adjustment.
The shifters you have of course are 2:1 and meant to work with a Shimano
derailleur.

Hmm... I didn't give the 1:1, 2:1 ratio much thought till now. That seems to
mean that the Sram xo shifters (which is 1:1 IIRC), would only move the
cable half the amount of what my current Sram attack does. So the derailleur
would move only halfway as well. Theoretically I'd need 16 "clicks" on 1:1
shifter to work with my 8 spd (shimano btw) cassette. Am I missing
something?

Aside from that, shouldn't ESP shifters also be able to shift Shimano mechs?
I mean they'd just be moving the cable less thats all, right? Oh wait I just
thought of something. 1:1 is just the ratio but the cable movement for 1:1
and 2:1 Sram shifters should still be relatively similar right? or so i
hope.

bloocow - getting worried

bloocow said...

"Super Slinky" wrote in message
t...
bloocow said...

Sorry, you're right. 8 spd and 9 spd derailleurs work the same. I was
thinking "8 spd Sram shifters are hard to find" but somehow it came out
as
derailleur. Currently I'm using a jumpstop in place of a front
derailleur
cus I have only 2 chainrings (middle,large) so I seldom shift the front.
Basically its middle ring for off road and large ring for road use. It
takes
like a sec to manually move the chain up or down although you have to
stop
riding and might get your hands/gloves dirty. For some reason I enjoy
making
things difficult for myself.

bloocow

I read your latest responses on this thread and you either made some
typos or you have the wrong idea. You can't use 9sp shifters with an 8sp
cassette. Those are exactly what is not compatible. I seem to remember
some questions about the derailleur cog width in connection with using
8sp derailleurs with 9sp chains, but for the most part the derailleurs
are the same because 8sp and 9sp cassettes have the same width. 9sp cogs
are just closer together. How much the derailleur moves is determined by
the shifter. Sram derailleurs need Sram shifters for some reason that I
have never bothered to find out, since I have always used Shimano. You
will also need to match the chain with the cassette. IOW, 9sp chain
w/9sp cassette, 8sp chain w/8sp cassette. Chainrings might also be a
problem, although some chainrings are advertised as being usable with
either 8sp or 9sp.

Maybe we were a little too quick to point out the basic similarity
between 8sp and 9sp derailleurs. I would strongly recommend that you not
try to mix and match 8sp and 9sp components. Some combos may work, but
IMO you are asking for problems. I have enough trouble getting a noise-
free setup with an all Shimano 9sp system.

I did read about the shifting incompatibility between 8 and 9 spd. There was
however a thread I googled where someone mentioned that if you tune the
shifting starting with the middle of the cogs, the shifters could still
manage to shift quite smoothly. The guy argued that the cable pull
difference between 8 and 9 spd shifters was very small and therefore the
above might be possible. I hope to try that.

But did he do it, or was he just theorizing? I'm not saying it won't
work, but if you ever get it right, fly over here and set all the
adjustments on my derailleurs, OK? I'll buy beer.

Agreed that the chain width would complicate things as well but if the above
works, then using a thicker (i.e. 8spd) chain would be better than using a 9
spd chain. Thats assuming I have enough 8 spd chains and cassettes. I'm
actually running Sram attack shifters with an XT rear D and they've worked
well enough. In fact I've only had thumb shifters on my first real bike,
which was many years ago.

The alternative to not doing the (possibly disastrous) setup above, would be
to get 8 spd shifters or change everything to 9 spd. For quite some time
now, most lbs' here have been telling me they don't sell 8 spd stuff
anymore. From what I know, its because the distributor here doesn't bring 8
spd stuff in anymore. If I were to order overseas, it would actually be
cheaper for me to change all to 9 spd. So unless I get lucky and find an 8
spd shifter within the next couple of weeks, I think I'll get the 9 spd
shifters.

Thanks for the clarification tho.

bloocow

I don't see why you don't just look for some used parts to flesh out
your 8sp system. It may be that your quest to save a little money may
cost you in the end. But who knows. Let us know how it turns out.
Tinkering is half the fun of bicycling anyway.

"Super Slinky" wrote in message
t...
bloocow said...

"Super Slinky" wrote in message
t...
bloocow said...

Sorry, you're right. 8 spd and 9 spd derailleurs work the same. I
was
thinking "8 spd Sram shifters are hard to find" but somehow it came
out
as
derailleur. Currently I'm using a jumpstop in place of a front
derailleur
cus I have only 2 chainrings (middle,large) so I seldom shift the
front.
Basically its middle ring for off road and large ring for road use.
It
takes
like a sec to manually move the chain up or down although you have
to
stop
riding and might get your hands/gloves dirty. For some reason I
enjoy
making
things difficult for myself.

bloocow

I read your latest responses on this thread and you either made some
typos or you have the wrong idea. You can't use 9sp shifters with an
8sp
cassette. Those are exactly what is not compatible. I seem to remember
some questions about the derailleur cog width in connection with using
8sp derailleurs with 9sp chains, but for the most part the derailleurs
are the same because 8sp and 9sp cassettes have the same width. 9sp
cogs
are just closer together. How much the derailleur moves is determined
by
the shifter. Sram derailleurs need Sram shifters for some reason that
I
have never bothered to find out, since I have always used Shimano. You
will also need to match the chain with the cassette. IOW, 9sp chain
w/9sp cassette, 8sp chain w/8sp cassette. Chainrings might also be a
problem, although some chainrings are advertised as being usable with
either 8sp or 9sp.

Maybe we were a little too quick to point out the basic similarity
between 8sp and 9sp derailleurs. I would strongly recommend that you
not
try to mix and match 8sp and 9sp components. Some combos may work, but
IMO you are asking for problems. I have enough trouble getting a
noise-
free setup with an all Shimano 9sp system.

I did read about the shifting incompatibility between 8 and 9 spd. There
was
however a thread I googled where someone mentioned that if you tune the
shifting starting with the middle of the cogs, the shifters could still
manage to shift quite smoothly. The guy argued that the cable pull
difference between 8 and 9 spd shifters was very small and therefore the
above might be possible. I hope to try that.

But did he do it, or was he just theorizing? I'm not saying it won't
work, but if you ever get it right, fly over here and set all the
adjustments on my derailleurs, OK? I'll buy beer.

I think it was just a theory so I may not claim that beer yet.

Agreed that the chain width would complicate things as well but if the
above
works, then using a thicker (i.e. 8spd) chain would be better than using
a 9
spd chain. Thats assuming I have enough 8 spd chains and cassettes. I'm
actually running Sram attack shifters with an XT rear D and they've
worked
well enough. In fact I've only had thumb shifters on my first real bike,
which was many years ago.

The alternative to not doing the (possibly disastrous) setup above,
would be
to get 8 spd shifters or change everything to 9 spd. For quite some time
now, most lbs' here have been telling me they don't sell 8 spd stuff
anymore. From what I know, its because the distributor here doesn't
bring 8
spd stuff in anymore. If I were to order overseas, it would actually be
cheaper for me to change all to 9 spd. So unless I get lucky and find an
8
spd shifter within the next couple of weeks, I think I'll get the 9 spd
shifters.

Thanks for the clarification tho.

bloocow

I don't see why you don't just look for some used parts to flesh out
your 8sp system. It may be that your quest to save a little money may
cost you in the end. But who knows. Let us know how it turns out.
Tinkering is half the fun of bicycling anyway.

I'll post my findings then.

bloocow - fingers crossed