Switzerland mountain roads questions

On 21 Ott, 22:51, Martin Borsje wrote:
Zermatt/Saas Fee is a bit boring - rather flat. The views at the end of
the climbs give some compensation though.

With nostalgia I recall my first ride from Tasch to Zermatt, when the
road was unpaved and traffic just about nil.

Sergio
Pisa

sergio wrote
a little known road in the Dolomites. From Braies to
Pratopiazza, easy and beautiful: a true jewel!

Thanks, it's now on my list.
I believe that in the winter the road on the north side is used to access a
"rodelbahn", as follows . . . Drive high on the road with sleds carried in
the car. Everyone but the car driver glides down on their sleds on snow on
the rodelbahn trail. The car driver goes down on the road and meets them at
the bottom of the trail and takes them up for another sled run. I didn't
sled it, since I do my winter touring on skis.
(so I knew about that road -- but I hadn't thought about it from a summer
biking perspective -- until now)

To make a loop up you can ascend from Carbonin. On this side
the road is a rocky path and barebly possible to ride with a
racing bicycle, though I managed to do it.

I've skied that path in winter. I hope you got off the road just a little
ways north from Carbonin (Schluderbach) at the Lago di Landro (Dürrensee)
for the view back south to Monte Cristallo. Especially in early summer it's
very spectacular -- see the 5th photo on this page:
http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/d

A little further north down from the Lago di Landro, I think there's a view
east to the famous Tre Cimes di Lavaredo (Drei Zinnen) - (but it might
require a short hike?)

Ken

wrote
Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i54.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i53.html

Thanks, I saw that in one of your detailed helpful trip reports, so I've
been thinking about it. And I looked for the north-side trails while riding
across Nufenen - (that reconnoiter did not inspire my confidence). Trying
San Giacomo would give me an excuse to try Simplon. Looking at the second
photo makes it clear to me why you have a different feel for some of the
passes than I do: You rode them in early July in a year with seasonal snow
nearby, and I rode them in September.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html

That photo helps explain to me why Jobst thinks Col de la Seigne doesn't
have many rocks -- because it didn't the last time he rode it. But paths and
roads keep changing . . . from my crossing in 2006 see the bottom photo on
this page:
http://www.roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb
Maybe the next time someone rides it and reports, it will have changed back
to like Jobst's photo.

Ken

Martin Borsje wrote
This road [over Grosse Scheidegg] is paved - actually the climb from the
other side (Meiringen) is far more beautiful

I do not agree. Wait till you see my photographs. My opinion is that the
east side up from Meiringen is a worthwhile climb, indeed with spectacular
views higher up. But the climb up the west side on bike route 61 (not the
main road) from Interlaken to Grindelwald is overwhelmingly great - (some on
dirt, but the majority paved) - at least the day I did it.

.. . (Funny when I reached Grosse Scheidegg just a few weeks ago, I met four
riders from the Netherlands who had ridden up the east side from Meiringen.
I told them right there at the pass that it was too bad they missed riding
up the west side thru Grindelwald. Then I rode down the east side toward
Meiringen, and I was even more convinced that the west side was better --
and then I met them again at a restaurant, since they descended the same way
they came up.)

North part of Sanetsch is heavily unpaved, you have to carry your bike or
take the cable car.

Thanks for the warning. So did you descend the south side back down the same
way? or cross over north?

Ken

Martin Borsje wrote
Zermatt/Saas Fee is a bit boring - rather flat. The views at the end of
the climbs give some compensation though.

Thanks for the impression about riding those roads. I agree about the views
at the top. And I do want some great views on my riding up climbs in the
Valais / Wallis. But I also want interesting riding along the way. And not
much traffic.

I personnaly would like to climb the road to Lac de Dixence...

My problem with that is that I've already been there -- on a ski tour. See
the 5th photo on this page:
http://www.roberts-1.com/t/hra/day_1
My memory leaves me doubtful that there are great views of the mountains
from the shore of the lake itself.
I do think there's a spectacular view of the north face of the Pigne
d'Arolla from the end of the road that climbs up to the village of Arolla
(see the last photo on the day_2 page) - but I don't know if the road itself
is worthwhile to ride.

A special memory for me is meeting a touring party from the Netherlands.
See the 5th photo on this page:
http://www.roberts-1.com/t/hra/day_3
When we talked a little, one of the skiers said I was a "crazy American".
Isn't it great that we can speak the common European language now?
I was so proud.
Actually he was smiling when he said it. It was because I was touring alone.
Then he said that his party was "crazy" also, because there were not roped
together on the glacier. So I smiled.

Oddly considering the various entertaining encounters I've had in other
countries, I've never cycled a day in the Netherlands
http://www.roberts-1.com/t/807/nl/k

Ken

Ken,
you know the area around Carbonin at least as well as I.
That trail up from Carbonin was where I ventured, some thirty years
ago, with my wooden cross country skis (as if to mimick mountain
skiing ... ).
That whole area between Auronzo, Cortina and DObbiaco is the most
stunning ever.
By the way, have you ridden your bike also along Val Giralba up to
Misurina?

Sergio
Pisa

On 22 Ott, 05:07, "Ken Roberts"
Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.
Thanks, I saw that in one of your detailed helpful trip reports, so I've
been thinking about it. And I looked for the north-side trails while riding
across Nufenen - (that reconnoiter did not inspire my confidence). Trying
San Giacomo would give me an excuse to try Simplon.

Last year, while riding up from AIrolo to the Nufenen, When I was at
L'Acqua I stopped and enquired about the trail coming down from Passo
San Giacomo. I was told that ir is strictly for mountain bikes,
absolutely not possible to do it on a regular road bike.
Jobst, do you agree with that?

The Simplon?
Ken, spare yourself such a disillusion. Nowadays it's a true
Autostrada (except the stretch of the old road up from Brig, if you
take it) and not even rewarding for the overall landscape, in my
opinion.

Sergio
Pisa

sergio wrote
The Simplon? Ken, spare yourself such a disillusion.
Nowadays it's a true Autostrada (except the stretch
of the old road up from Brig, if you take it) and not even
rewarding for the overall landscape, in my opinion.

Thanks for the warning, Sergio.
But I can't make San Giacomo part of a worthwhile larger loop route (like
with Simplon), then I'm not going to do anything with the hiking trails on
its north side.
And I'm not likely to ride only its south side up + back unless it's pretty
good quality in itself -- which means more than just some distant views of
snow-covered peaks (but only in early summer?) and some hairpin curves. I'm
willing to ride Grand Ferret again, (and Seigne once) because it's got great
views of _close_ peaks with substantial (for another decade at least?)
year-round snow (and because it makes a nice loop with San Bernardo / Col du
Grand St Bernard).

btw What do you think of Pian del Re on the north side of Mon Viso (in far
western Italy) as an up-and-back ride?

Ken

sergio wrote
have you ridden your bike also along Val Giralba up to Misurina?

If you mean the S48 west from Auronzo di Cadore . . .
Yes Sharon and I rode it on our tandem just a few weeks ago. We did it as a
counter-clockwise loop from Cortina d'Ampezzo thru Pieve di Cadore to
Auronzo, then from Misurina we continued north to the Carbonin junction and
then back to Cortina.
photos http://www.roberts-1.com/t/b08/its/s/e - (map linked from that page)

Sharon liked the loop a lot, and (though it's not my favorite loop in the
Dolomites) I'd ride it again.
Actually I felt the section from Giralba going west up to the bivio Misurina
junction was one of the less interesting parts (I think because we did it in
the uphill direction, so we couldn't see much of the big views of the
Sora**** mountain until we finished riding and could turn around to look).
The lower section thru the forest went on longer than I needed, but Sharon
and I are slower on our tandem -- perhaps for you it would seem "just
right".

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i54.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i53.html

Thanks, I saw that in one of your detailed helpful trip reports, so
I've been thinking about it. And I looked for the north-side trails
while riding across Nufenen - (that reconnoiter did not inspire my
confidence). Trying San Giacomo would give me an excuse to try
Simplon. Looking at the second photo makes it clear to me why you
have a different feel for some of the passes than I do: You rode
them in early July in a year with seasonal snow nearby, and I rode
them in September.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col
Ferret on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great
passes.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html

That photo helps explain to me why Jobst thinks Col de la Seigne
doesn't have many rocks -- because it didn't the last time he rode
it. But paths and roads keep changing... from my crossing in 2006
see the bottom photo on this page:

http://www.roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb

Maybe the next time someone rides it and reports, it will have
changed back to like Jobst's photo.

It will never do that in our life times. The first picture on that
page is a sad reminder of that because I have a photo of that glacier
when it filled that basin at the bottom of the scene with a bursting
upwelling berm of ice. In the days of yore, the trail was a bit
tougher because it clung to the wall above ice that is no longer.

I love your excellent photos that bring out the beauty of that place.

Jobst Brandt