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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
Mike Anderson writes:
I am looking for an alternative to DT Proline pre-tinned wire. I would like to try tying and soldering for practice. I know that DT sells wire and solder, but it is pricey. Are there suitable items available? I would like to find an alternative that is as easy to yank as the DT wire. I will use the knot-free method. I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. You didn't say why you want to undertake this tedious chore. I hope you are aware that measurements were made on hand built wheels furnished by Wheelsmith before and after tying and soldering to prove that there was no possible structural effect from this process. John Starley invented cross laced spoking on high wheelers so that he could tie spokes at crossing points to prevent them from causing a header when they broke. That was the initial purpose of cross lacing spokes, so that they could be tied together. Shortly after that Renold showed Starley his bicycle chain and the chain driven bicycle of today was born. Wheel builders were furious that he made tying spokes unnecessary so they began using wire and soldering them to convince people that this made their wheels "stronger" without showing the need for that strength or how it could affect durability. They got so good a telling these fables that 100 years passed without a real challenge to the concept. It was pure faith... "why would they lie to me?" Well, in fact the art was so old that the purveyors believed it themselves. I assure you that there is nothing to it, except that replacing a broken spoke becomes more difficult. I've seen it done back when this was a common practice. Jobst Brandt |
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#2
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
mike anderson wrote:
I am looking for an alternative to DT Proline pre-tinned wire. I would like to try tying and soldering for practice. I know that DT sells wire and solder, but it is pricey. Are there suitable items available? I would like to find an alternative that is as easy to yank as the DT wire. I will use the knot-free method. I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. Any help would be most appreciated, mike ---- email: sbREMOVE46 @ bigREMOVEfoot . com remove REMOVE it's just a soldering exercise. find a seller of whatever gauge wire you want [i believe d.t. is 0.4mm] and go from there. it doesn't need to be tinned. if you use stainless, it'll be the same as the spokes and the acid flux you'll use will work very nicely. |
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
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#4
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:42:45 -0500, mike anderson
wrote: I am looking for an alternative to DT Proline pre-tinned wire. Try an arts and crafts supply store, or look for tinned magnet wire at an electronics supply house. It really doesn't have to be steel wire, you know; the tying and soldering has no structural effect on the wheel, so use whatever you want. I would like to try tying and soldering for practice. I'll assume that this is essentially an academic exercise; why not pursue it on something where the downside (making it hard to replace a spoke) isn't a factor? I know that DT sells wire and solder, but it is pricey. Are there suitable items available? I would like to find an alternative that is as easy to yank as the DT wire. I will use the knot-free method. Having never dealt with the DT, I have no comparison to provide, but from experience in other fields, if the solder adheres properly, you should not be able to easily strip the joint without applying heat unless the wire guage is fairly large and the solder coverage is scant. If it's possible to do so with small-guage wire, then you had a cold joint, and didn't get a good bond anyway...in which case, what was the point? If the guage of the wire is large and the solder is applie sparingly, it's often possible to unwind the joint without heating even with ordinary copper wire (from about 20AWG up, at least) as long as a tip is accessible to grab with pliers. For what you propose to do, then, I see no reason not to simply use some 20 or 18 guage bare copper. It takes the solder as readily as you're likely to want. Tinned copper is widely available, however, and is even easier to deal with for this. "Beekeepers wire", which is tinned iron, is available at many farm and ranch supply houses, and would work just as well. Small-guage electric fencing wire might also work; it's available from the same places. I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. As noted, there are sources for tinned small-guage wire outside the world of bikes. Bike suppliers have largely discontinued supplying it because there is effectively no demand for it anymore...with good reason. If you're just trying to recreate a museum piece, though, the materials can be had readily enough with a little poking around. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:42:45 -0500, mike anderson wrote:
I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. You don't need a pre-tinned wire. Why do you think you do? -- David L. Johnson __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) | |
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
I am looking for an alternative to DT Proline pre-tinned wire.
I would like to try tying and soldering for practice. I know that DT sells wire and solder, but it is pricey. Are there suitable items available? I would like to find an alternative that is as easy to yank as the DT wire. I will use the knot-free method. I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. Any help would be most appreciated, mike ---- email: sbREMOVE46 @ bigREMOVEfoot . com remove REMOVE |
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
One alternative that will allow excellent bragging rights is kevlar
thread. This is available in better fabric stores and even some fly-fishing shops. A drop of super-glue per wrap will ensure it does not unwrap. |
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
mike anderson wrote: I am looking for an alternative to DT Proline pre-tinned wire. I would like to try tying and soldering for practice. I know that DT sells wire and solder, but it is pricey. Are there suitable items available? I would like to find an alternative that is as easy to yank as the DT wire. I will use the knot-free method. I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. Any help would be most appreciated, mike The DT stuff, also available from Quality Bike Parts, is all I have seen. Also called 'bee keepers wire'....now lessee, how long before Jobst........SECOND POST!!! Way to stay predictable Jobst!! |
#9
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
Kevlar is so old school. You aren't with it unless you are tying your
spokes with carbon fiber thread and fixing them with epoxy. This is preferably done on a 10 paired spoke wheel. This makes the spoke crossings more aero. |
#10
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Tie and solder: any alternatives to DT pre-tinned wire?
"mike anderson" wrote in message news:2005111402424516807%seeunderneath@mypostcom.. . I am looking for an alternative to DT Proline pre-tinned wire. I would like to try tying and soldering for practice. I know that DT sells wire and solder, but it is pricey. Are there suitable items available? I would like to find an alternative that is as easy to yank as the DT wire. I will use the knot-free method. I know the question of tie and solder have been discussed many times. I am just looking for a more economical pre-tinned wire regardless if the method is useful or not. Any help would be most appreciated, If you are just doing it for soldering practice, I would suggest building a little 6 watt tube amp and doing point to point wiring. At least you will end up with something fun to listen to. But if you must tie and solder wheels, scavenge some old T.V. twin lead and strip out the copper wire. Use that, and then buy some silver bearing solder -- like they use for stainless steel and food service equipment. It will be sold with appropriate liquid flux at your local welding store. This type of solder will polish up, and your little ties-and-solders will look like jewelry. You will need a really high wattage soldering iron. I used to use a propane torch. I gave this up years ago, though -- and not because of the Book or the haranguing I received from Jobst. I just have so many other things to do, and it did not seem to make much of a difference, if any. -- Jay Beattie. |
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