Brooke B-66 Saddle Bolts: Size?

Lost one of the top nuts that hold the spring on my B-66 saddle.

Spent some time at Lowe's:

- 1/4-20 is too small
- 5/16ths-20 is too large
- M6 is too small
- M8 is too large.

Lowe's doesn't do M7, so I couldn't check.

Called the outfit that sold me the saddle and asked.

Guy there said "sometimes they come metric and sometimes they
come Whitworth" - but he didn't sound too sure of himself and did
not volunteer sizes.

After hearing that, had to wonder if Brooks mixed the two on the
same saddles... but I didn't want to go there.... -)

This is a new (within 3 months) saddle.

Whitworth? 2010? "Plueeeeze Joe; say it ain't so!"

If it's not metric, and having some rivets on hand, I'm tempted
to take the thing apart and substitute some real bolts... OTOH
the ugly possibility crosses my mind that they may just be stubs
welded to the frame.

Welded or bolts?

Size?
--
PeteCresswell

On 3 Mar., 01:46, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Lost one of the top nuts that hold the spring on my B-66 saddle.

Size?

Perhaps their spare part list can be of some help:
http://www.brookssaddles.com/docs/spare_parts.pdf


--
Regards

Per Peter S.:
Perhaps their spare part list can be of some help:
http://www.brookssaddles.com/docs/spare_parts.pdf

Bingo. "BMP 183... 9/32" Nut... Zinc... All Sprung Saddles".

Thanks!
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Lost one of the top nuts that hold the spring on my B-66 saddle.

Spent some time at Lowe's:

- 1/4-20 is too small
- 5/16ths-20 is too large
- M6 is too small
- M8 is too large.

Lowe's doesn't do M7, so I couldn't check.

Called the outfit that sold me the saddle and asked.

Guy there said "sometimes they come metric and sometimes they
come Whitworth" - but he didn't sound too sure of himself and did
not volunteer sizes.

After hearing that, had to wonder if Brooks mixed the two on the
same saddles... but I didn't want to go there.... -)

This is a new (within 3 months) saddle.

Whitworth? 2010? "Plueeeeze Joe; say it ain't so!"

If it's not metric, and having some rivets on hand, I'm tempted
to take the thing apart and substitute some real bolts... OTOH
the ugly possibility crosses my mind that they may just be stubs
welded to the frame.

Welded or bolts?

Size?
--
PeteCresswell

I can't get into the tangle of springs on my B73 with a thread gauge
to measure the thread, but I measured the outside of the nut with a
digital caliper and got 12.78mm which, allowing for poor fit of the
caliper points because of the awkard reach, is probably 12.7mm or half
an inch. 13mm and half-inch sockets fitted to the same-size nut on the
clamp shows that that too is half an inch, not 13mm. I conclude that
your saddle nuts are Imperial something, intended to take a half-inch
spanner.

As for the bolts, they appear not to be welded-in studs (which would
be appalling practice even for a British firm living on past glories)
but to be coach bolts, which are flatish domed bolts for decoration,
with underneath a big square nut intended to be held in a cutout
carefully cut in wood or in a custom metal pressing that either clips
onto an end or is bent over something or buts up against it to stop it
rotating. See the under the springs at the bottom. The top of my B73
has several washers and an ali ring above the saddle''s stiffening
frame, and one of those is probably cut out to hold the coach square.

Andre Jute
"The first American car was sold to an American on April Fool's Day,
1898." -- Ralph Stein in "Vintage and Classic Cars", Bantam Books,
1977

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Lost one of the top nuts that hold the spring on my B-66 saddle.
Spent some time at Lowe's:
- 1/4-20 is too small
- 5/16ths-20 is too large
- M6 is too small
- M8 is too large.
Lowe's doesn't do M7, so I couldn't check.
Called the outfit that sold me the saddle and asked.
Guy there said "sometimes they come metric and sometimes they
come Whitworth" - but he didn't sound too sure of himself and did
not volunteer sizes.
After hearing that, had to wonder if Brooks mixed the two on the
same saddles... but I didn't want to go there.... -)
This is a new (within 3 months) saddle.
Whitworth? 2010? "Plueeeeze Joe; say it ain't so!"
If it's not metric, and having some rivets on hand, I'm tempted
to take the thing apart and substitute some real bolts... OTOH
the ugly possibility crosses my mind that they may just be stubs
welded to the frame.
Welded or bolts?
Size?

It's a British saddle, man! Whitworth BSW 1/4-18 of course.

http://www.enginehistory.org/british_fasteners.htm

from which I quote, "Another area that causes confusion is
the fact that some BSW or BSF nuts can be screwed on UNF or
UNC bolts and vice-versa. Under NO circumstances should this
practice even be considered."

In 2010? Sure. Ample dollops of tradition, no extra charge.

I believe they are welded but removing a spring bolt means
undoing the top rivets anyway so I'd suggest a new nut. And
a drop of red loktite. If your local MGB, Jaguar or Norton
guy can't help, try:

http://mossmotors.com/

Among other things, they sell nearly SnapOn quality Gordon
British forged Whitworth wrenches.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/2/2010 6:16 PM (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Bingo. "BMP 183... 9/32" Nut... Zinc... All Sprung Saddles".

9/32'' is an unusual thread size -- to me, anyway.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On Mar 3, 11:14*am, * Still Just Me *
wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:09:14 -0800, Mike Rocket J Squirrel

wrote:
On 3/2/2010 6:16 PM (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Bingo. *"BMP 183... 9/32" Nut... Zinc... All Sprung Saddles".

9/32'' is an unusual thread size -- to me, anyway.

Not exactly the kind of thing you are going to find down at the local
hardware store in the USA.

I bet either McMaster-Carr or Aircraft Spruce has 'em though. I bet
AS even has them in titanium, for weight weenies. (A weight weenie
with a Brooks? Could happen, I guess.)

nate

On 3/3/2010 8:30 AM N8N wrote:

On Mar 3, 11:14�am, * Still Just Me *
wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:09:14 -0800, Mike Rocket J Squirrel

wrote:
On 3/2/2010 6:16 PM (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Bingo. �"BMP 183... 9/32" Nut... Zinc... All Sprung Saddles".

9/32'' is an unusual thread size -- to me, anyway.

Not exactly the kind of thing you are going to find down at the local
hardware store in the USA.

I bet either McMaster-Carr or Aircraft Spruce has 'em though. I bet
AS even has them in titanium, for weight weenies. (A weight weenie
with a Brooks? Could happen, I guess.)


I'll take Nate's bet. Pint of beer as stakes.

I checked McMaster' site to see if it was a listed thread size in ye
fasteners section (hex nuts, anyways) and, nope, 9/32'' ain't listed.

It's not a listed UTF thread size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard

Nor does it appear to be a standard Whitworth size, either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On 3 Mar, 04:05, AMuzi wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Lost one of the top nuts that hold the spring on my B-66 saddle.
Spent some time at Lowe's:
- 1/4-20 is too small *
- 5/16ths-20 is too large
- M6 is too small
- M8 is too large.
Lowe's doesn't do M7, so I couldn't check.
Called the outfit that sold me the saddle and asked.
Guy there said "sometimes they come metric and sometimes they
come Whitworth" - but he didn't sound too sure of himself and did
not volunteer sizes.
After hearing that, had to wonder if Brooks mixed the two on the
same saddles... but I didn't want to go there.... -)
This is a new (within 3 months) saddle.
Whitworth? *2010? * "Plueeeeze Joe; say it ain't so!"
If it's not metric, and having some rivets on hand, I'm tempted
to take the thing apart and substitute some real bolts... OTOH
the ugly possibility crosses my mind that they may just be stubs
welded to the frame.
Welded or bolts?
Size?

It's a British saddle, man! Whitworth BSW 1/4-18 of course.

Why would it be anything but Whitworth? Whitworth standardised
fastenings and entered the cycle industry. Brooks make bicycle
saddles so also adopted the standard cycle and industry fastener. A
perfect scale of sizes, they dont need to change to suit your ideas.



http://www.enginehistory.org/british_fasteners.htm

from which I quote, "Another area that causes confusion is
the fact that some BSW or BSF nuts can be screwed on UNF or
UNC bolts and vice-versa. Under NO circumstances should this
practice even be considered."

In 2010? Sure. *Ample dollops of tradition, no extra charge.

I believe they are welded but removing a spring bolt means
undoing the top rivets anyway so I'd suggest a new nut. And
a drop of red loktite. If your local MGB, Jaguar or Norton
guy can't help, try:

http://mossmotors.com/

Among other things, they sell nearly SnapOn quality Gordon
British forged Whitworth wrenches.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

thirty-six wrote:
On 3 Mar, 04:05, AMuzi wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Lost one of the top nuts that hold the spring on my B-66 saddle.
Spent some time at Lowe's:
- 1/4-20 is too small
- 5/16ths-20 is too large
- M6 is too small
- M8 is too large.
Lowe's doesn't do M7, so I couldn't check.
Called the outfit that sold me the saddle and asked.
Guy there said "sometimes they come metric and sometimes they
come Whitworth" - but he didn't sound too sure of himself and did
not volunteer sizes.
After hearing that, had to wonder if Brooks mixed the two on the
same saddles... but I didn't want to go there.... -)
This is a new (within 3 months) saddle.
Whitworth? 2010? "Plueeeeze Joe; say it ain't so!"
If it's not metric, and having some rivets on hand, I'm tempted
to take the thing apart and substitute some real bolts... OTOH
the ugly possibility crosses my mind that they may just be stubs
welded to the frame.
Welded or bolts?
Size?
It's a British saddle, man! Whitworth BSW 1/4-18 of course.

Why would it be anything but Whitworth? Whitworth standardised
fastenings and entered the cycle industry. Brooks make bicycle
saddles so also adopted the standard cycle and industry fastener. A
perfect scale of sizes, they dont need to change to suit your ideas.


http://www.enginehistory.org/british_fasteners.htm

from which I quote, "Another area that causes confusion is
the fact that some BSW or BSF nuts can be screwed on UNF or
UNC bolts and vice-versa. Under NO circumstances should this
practice even be considered."

In 2010? Sure. Ample dollops of tradition, no extra charge.

I believe they are welded but removing a spring bolt means
undoing the top rivets anyway so I'd suggest a new nut. And
a drop of red loktite. If your local MGB, Jaguar or Norton
guy can't help, try:

http://mossmotors.com/

Among other things, they sell nearly SnapOn quality Gordon
British forged Whitworth wrenches.


I deleted that (too late it seems) post as another
contributor corrected the thread size to 9/32". Sorry.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971