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#11
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
"DH" wrote in message ...
I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions? How should this be handled? Actually, I see no dilemma. In the wild, if WE were a threat to the lion, then the lion would have no qualms about attacking and killing us. Lions kill for territory. The lion would, had it been permitted to live, represent a continuing threat to our kind. And lions get each and every single bit of their food from animals that were alive just before the lion killed them (unless the lion is kill-stealing, which happens a lot) because, to lions, might makes right. Some would argue that the lion was only doing what it normally does; to which I'd respond, and humans are doing what humans should be doing. Some might argue that the lions were there first, to which you'd have to acknowledge that lions fight for territory, often usurping control from another lion which was previously there. So the concept of being killed for territory is not alien to the species involved. And yes, bears that have attacked humans are killed (if they are tracked down). |
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#12
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in
Orange County, California...The lion is still on the loose. In the story linked to, the mountain lion was probably killed. How is that "on the loose?" Bill, riding bent in Florida (hence the screen name) To e-mail, remove undies |
#13
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
"Bigfrog" wrote in message om... "DH" wrote in message ... I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions? How should this be handled? Domesticated or wild, animals that kill a human for any reason are, and should be put down. Your sympathies are misplaced, a mountain lion killing a humans is not "what it does". This is a deadly abbreration that I'm sure has left family and friends of the victims devastated. I'm equally sure that the encroachment of humans into to the previouslly wild domain of forest creatures has created havoc with their ability to survive and otherwise thrive. It's a problem, but having group thearapy for a killer mountain lion wont resolve the problem. Bill This is a problem I've seen many times. I thought I wrote very clearly, without emotion, without judgment and you read things into what I wrote that are only in your head. ___Reread what I wrote and then reread your reply.___ These animals kill other large animals - we also happen to be a large animal. I thought I wrote without emotion. My 'sympathies' are nonexistent. I do not know a solution when a killer animal and human occupy the same place. |
#14
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
"DH" wrote in message
. Do we kill bears that have attacked humans? Yes What's the manner we deal with mountain lions? Get the dogs, run it down and shoot it. How should this be handled? Just like I said. They got the dogs, ran it down and shot it. Pumas/cougars/panthers/mountain lions are not an endagered species. When an animal starts attacking humans it has entered my very personal ecological niche and I kill it. I don't fault the lion for it is doing what is natural(hunting prey) and I don't fault myself for I am doing what is natural for me (self defense). Jerry (top of the food chain) Rhodes |
#15
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Pumas/cougars/panthers/mountain lions are not an endagered species.
A quick google search and CTRL + C and CTRL + V .... http://www.dfg.ca.gov/lion/f_g4800.html CALIFORNIA CODES FISH AND GAME CODE SECTION 4800-4809 4800. (a) The mountain lion (genus Felis) is a specially protected mammal under the laws of this state. (b) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter or in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or possession of any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, when the owner can demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or product thereof, was in the person's possession on June 6, 1990. (c) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting in self-defense or in defense of others. (d) Section 219 does not apply to this chapter. Neither the commission nor the department shall adopt any regulation that conflicts with or supersedes any of the provisions of this chapter. 4800. (a) The commission shall regulate the mountain lion (genus Felis) pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 200) of Division 1, and the department shall carry out the regulations of the commission and manage those mammals in the same manner as it carries out other regulations of the commission and manages other mammals that are not rare, endangered, or threatened species under the laws of this state. (b) Pursuant to subdivision (a), the department shall prepare, submit to the commission for approval, and implement a mountain lion management plan that promotes health and safety protection and protection for livestock, domestic animals, other property, and other wildlife species and that implements Section 1801. The plan shall identify zones based on the department's estimates of mountain lion densities developed from the best information available to the department. The department shall designate the zones that are priority zones where the removal of individual mountain lions to protect public safety, livestock, domestic animals, other property, and other wildlife species has not alleviated threats. In designating priority zones, the department may consider, based on the best information available to the department, where the mountain lion population is depleting other wildlife species or where the mountain lion population may cause any of the following: (1) the extinction of threatened or endangered species; (2) mountain lion depredation of livestock and domestic animals; or (3) a threat to public health and safety. The taking of a mountain lion that is attacking an individual member of a wildlife species other than threatened or endangered species shall not be authorized based on that act alone. Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the department shall not manage, regulate, or take mountain lions in a priority zone, as provided in this section or Section 4801, unless there is a plan for that zone and the department makes a finding that managing, regulating, or taking mountain lions is consistent with the plan for that zone and maintains a viable mountain lion population in that zone. (c) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter, in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3, or as prescribed in regulations of the commission. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or possession of any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, when the owner can demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or product thereof, was in the person's possession on June 6, 1990. (d) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting in self-defense or in defense of others. (e) In the case of conflict between this chapter and the California Endangered Species Act, Chapter 1.5 (commencing with Section 2050) of Division 3, the California Endangered Species Act shall prevail. 4801. The department may remove or take any mountain lion, or authorize an appropriate local agency with public safety responsibility to remove or take any mountain lion, that is perceived to be an imminent threat to public health or safety. 4801. The department may remove or take, or authorize its designee, including, but not limited to, an appropriate governmental agency with public safety responsibility, an appropriate governmental agency with wildlife management responsibility, or an owner of land, to remove or take, one or more mountain lions that are perceived to be an imminent threat to public health or safety or livestock anywhere in the state except within the state park system. Within the state park system, the department may remove or take, or authorize an appropriate governmental agency with public safety responsibility or an appropriate governmental agency with wildlife management responsibility to remove or take, one or more mountain lions that are perceived to be an imminent threat to public health or safety only with the concurrence of the Department of Parks and Recreation. 4801.5. Prior to submittal to, and approval by, the commission of the plan required pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 4800, the department may remove or take any mountain lion, or authorize an appropriate local agency with public safety responsibility to remove or take any mountain lion, that is perceived to be an imminent threat to public health or safety. 4802. Any person, or the employee or agent of a person, whose livestock or other property is being or has been injured, damaged, or destroyed by a mountain lion may report that fact to the department and request a permit to take the mountain lion. 4803. Upon receipt of a report pursuant to Section 4802, the department, or any animal damage control officer specifically authorized by the department to carry out this responsibility, shall immediately take the action necessary to confirm that there has been depredation by a mountain lion as reported. The confirmation process shall be completed as quickly as possible, but in no event more than 48 hours after receiving the report. If satisfied that there has been depredation by a mountain lion as reported, the department shall promptly issue a permit to take the depredating mountain lion. 4804. In order to ensure that only the depredating mountain lion will be taken, the department shall issue the permit pursuant to Section 4803 with the following conditions attached: (a) The permit shall expire 10 days after issuance. (b) The permit shall authorize the holder to begin pursuit not more than one mile from the depredation site. (c) The permit shall limit the pursuit of the depredating mountain lion to within a 10-mile radius from the location of the reported damage or destruction. 4805. Whenever immediate authorization will materially assist in the pursuit of the particular mountain lion believed to be responsible for the depredation reported pursuant to Section 4802, the department or the animal damage control officer may orally authorize the pursuit and taking of the depredating mountain lion, and the department shall issue a written permit for the period previously authorized as soon as practicable after the oral authorization. 4806. Any person issued a permit pursuant to Section 4803 or 4805 shall report, by telephone within 24 hours, the capturing, injuring, or killing of any mountain lion to an office of the department or, if telephoning is not practicable, in writing within five days after the capturing, injuring, or killing of the mountain lion. At the time of making the report of the capturing, injuring, or killing, the holder of the permit shall make arrangements to turn over the mountain lion or the entire carcass of the mountain lion which has been recovered to a representative of the department and shall do so in a timely manner. 4806. Any person who has captured, injured, or killed a mountain lion within a priority zone identified in a mountain lion management plan under Section 4800 or who has been issued a permit pursuant to Section 4803 or 4805 shall report, by telephone within 24 hours, the capturing, injuring, or killing of any mountain lion to an office of the department or, if telephoning is not practicable, in writing within five days after the capturing, injuring, or killing of the mountain lion. At the time of making the report of the capturing, injuring, or killing, the person authorized to take the mountain lion under a mountain lion management plan approved pursuant to Section 4800 shall make the remains of the mountain lion available for inspection to department personnel upon their request pursuant to regulations adopted by the commission and the holder of the permit under Section 4803 or 4805 shall make arrangements to turn over the mountain lion or the entire carcass of the mountain lion which has been recovered to a representative of the department and shall do so in a timely manner. 4807. (a) Any mountain lion that is encountered while in the act of pursuing, inflicting injury to, or killing livestock, or domestic animals, may be taken immediately by the owner of the property or the owner's employee or agent. The taking shall be reported within 72 hours to the department. The department shall investigate the depredation, and, if the mountain lion was captured, injured, or killed, the mountain lion or the entire carcass of the mountain lion which has been recovered shall be turned over to the department. Upon satisfactorily completing the investigation and receiving the mountain lion or the carcass, if recovered, the department shall issue a permit confirming that the requirements of this section have been met with respect to the particular mountain lion taken under these circumstances. (b) The department shall undertake a complete necropsy on any returned mountain lion carcass and report the findings to the commission. The commission shall compile the reported findings and prepare an annual written report that shall be submitted to the Legislature not later than the January 15 next following the year in which the mountain lion was taken. 4808. As used in this chapter, "agent" means the agent or employee of the owner of the damaged or destroyed property, any county or city predator control officer, any employee of the Animal Damage Control Section of the United States Department of Agriculture, any departmental personnel, or any authorized or permitted houndsman registered with the department as possessing the requisite experience and having no prior conviction of any provision of this code or regulation adopted pursuant to this code. A plea of nolo contendere is a conviction for purposes of this section. 4809. Mountain lions authorized to be taken pursuant to this chapter shall be taken by the most effective means available to take the mountain lion causing the damage or destruction, except that no mountain lion shall be taken by means of poison, leg-hold or metal-jawed traps, and snares. |
#16
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Perhaps it wasn't a mountain lion but Mikey V who went off the deep end!
Perry B "Dennis" wrote in message om... One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County, California...The lion is still on the loose. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2752128/detail.html |
#17
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Pat wrote:
... It's unusual because Mountain Lions, as a species, do not hunt humans. This lion is different. Around humans, they have been timid, shy, and reclusive. A mountain lion attacking mountain bikers - I suspect the mountain lion was trained by M*k* V*nd*m*n. Tom Sherman - Quad Cities |
#18
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Perry Butler wrote:
Perhaps it wasn't a mountain lion but Mikey V who went off the deep end! The consensus on the Usenet cycling groups is that event occurred quote some time ago. Tom Sherman - Quad Cities |
#19
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
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#20
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Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
It would be interesting to know a little more of the pre-event history.
About twenty years ago my two children were walking home after school. It was about a half mile walk along the gravel driveway through the woods to our house. When they entered our property my son told my daughter that she had forgotten to close the gate. She told him there was a cougar lying behind the stump on the other side of the road. When he went back to close the gate he saw the cougar as well. During the next week the cougar was spotted several times in peoples yards and driveways. Nearly everyone that had "contact" with the cougar called the "Game and Wildlife" people. The "Game and Wildlife" people wanted to know if the cougar had attacked any animals or people? Until the animal had attacked something they were forbidden from acting. Fortunately for us no one was hurt. I always felt that the cougar we had spotted was either an older one, run off from his territory or a young one that was establishing his territory. In either case I was very nervous about the sightings. There may have been similar warning signs prior to this event. William Higley, Sr. (In the Pacific Northwest) Vision R-50 RANS Rocket "Dennis" wrote in message om... One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County, California...The lion is still on the loose. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2752128/detail.html |
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