Landis picks Lemond's Lawyer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100608...salandisdoping

On Jun 8, 7:40*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100608...salandisdoping

IMS, Lemond and team lost to the Lance/Trek/team. I guess the sexual
harassment thing is all forgiven in the push to crush LanceCo? Wow,
politics making strange bedfellows again!

From what I've read, it is no secret or even matter of opinion that
Novitzky's misconduct enabled those in the net (most important, Bonds)
to escape the desired (by Novitzky) maximum legal punishment, leading
to the desired (by Novitzky) hysterical headline-grabbing, career-
making, book-signing return for the noble and good prosecutors who are
only ever trying to return sports to those halcyon days of yesteryear
when everyone played fair and only the good guys got book deals.

In short, due to his personal hatred and greed, Novitzky screwed the
taxpayers bigtime and Big Sports went on largely as before.

Lessons learned on both sides, Round Two?
--D-y

On 6/8/2010 10:05 AM, --D-y wrote:
On Jun 8, 7:40 am, Anton wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100608...salandisdoping

IMS, Lemond and team lost to the Lance/Trek/team. I guess the sexual
harassment thing is all forgiven in the push to crush LanceCo? Wow,
politics making strange bedfellows again!

From what I've read, it is no secret or even matter of opinion that
Novitzky's misconduct enabled those in the net (most important, Bonds)
to escape the desired (by Novitzky) maximum legal punishment, leading
to the desired (by Novitzky) hysterical headline-grabbing, career-
making, book-signing return for the noble and good prosecutors who are
only ever trying to return sports to those halcyon days of yesteryear
when everyone played fair and only the good guys got book deals.

In short, due to his personal hatred and greed, Novitzky screwed the
taxpayers bigtime and Big Sports went on largely as before.

Lessons learned on both sides, Round Two?
--D-y

I'll bet you that the Lance publicity/legal machine is quietly hyping
the Novitsky bad guy story with every news outlet and sports blogger
they can influence. You may find that Novitsky isn't as radioactive as
they would have you believe. That said, it's a very good preemptive
strike technique. Lance has more to worry about that Novitsky.

On Jun 8, 10:05*am, --D-y wrote:
On Jun 8, 7:40*am, Anton Berlin wrote:

From what I've read, it is no secret or even matter of opinion that
Novitzky's misconduct enabled those in the net (most important, Bonds)
to escape the desired (by Novitzky) maximum legal punishment, leading
to the desired (by Novitzky) hysterical headline-grabbing, career-
making, book-signing return for the noble and good prosecutors who are
only ever trying to return sports to those halcyon days of yesteryear
when everyone played fair and only the good guys got book deals.

In short, due to his personal hatred and greed, Novitzky screwed the
taxpayers bigtime and Big Sports went on largely as before.

Lessons learned on both sides, Round Two?

dumbass,

so which is your position ? i) that it's a waste of resources to
pursue athletes for sporting violations or ii) that it's a
disappointment that novizky didn't get the convictions he was hoping
to ?

i take the former view, that it's the job of the sports leagues to
govern sports violations. though it's the job of the justice system to
catch lawbreakers, the violations we are talking about are really
sports violations rather than significant crimes or fraud against the
public.

Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:05 am, --D-y wrote:

Snip..

, the violations we are talking about are really
sports violations rather than significant crimes or fraud against the
public.

What an idiot. The biggest crime against humanity here is fraud against the
public for stealing the spotlight for 7 years if he doped. That means it's
all one of the biggest hoaxes in the history of cycling, but only because he
won 7 tours. It casts a lot of doubt on the point that he was supposed the
be the greatest tour rider of all times. If true he molded and stole 7 years
of the TDF from not just fans, but riders, and countless other organizations
who supported and bought into the science of Lance. Do you think Giro, Nike
and Trek knew or thought he was cheating? The people affected all 7 years of
this is astronomical in scope. That is a crime against humanity, IF HE
DOPED.



What makes it grievous is that the Science of Lance is thought to be an
unfair advantage because he used his money and connections, popularity to
obtain the services of Giro, Nike and Trek to get that extra advantage. In
fact he became so huge as a public figure, that Nike actually came to him
and asked him what they could do to make him go faster. He was able to gain
cutting edge technology secrets and use them while other teams didn't. If he
was doping too, then he had a double advantage which pushed him over the top
into that million dollar salary which at the time was a first and unheard of
since any time in previous history. That's puts an unusual asterisk over the
doping exclamation point. This isn't a simple case of a typical rider who
got busted at a typical UCI race which the fans could care less about. For
crying out loud Ulrich never won and the German fans were so ****ed, they
were spitting on Lance at the tour. Those are public fans, some of which
wrote EPO Lance on the road. If he doped, he also stole some of those wins
from Jan and others cause none of them had the Science of Lance advantage at
that time.



Just saying as a matter of speculation, cause we still don't have solid
proof, there are no nails being hammered into the coffin as of yet. I always
wanted to give him credit for passing those countless doping tests, never
failed a test, but if the whole thing is a big scam where big money and
doping agencies rubber stamped his tests, then the whole thing smacks of a
big media and corporate scam. That's would quite grievous to fans worldwide
and indeed is significant in the eyes of the public. The PUBLIC could of
been spending their leisure dollars elsewhere. I don't know where this thing
is going to end, but if convicted of doping, that's going to be devastating
for cycling. Greg is likely to benifit though over time.

"GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote in message
...
Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:05 am, --D-y wrote:

Snip..

, the violations we are talking about are really
sports violations rather than significant crimes or fraud against the
public.

What an idiot. The biggest crime against humanity here is fraud against
the public for stealing the spotlight for 7 years if he doped.

snip



Dumbass -

Amit is right.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

On Jun 8, 10:02*am, Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:05*am, --D-y wrote:

On Jun 8, 7:40*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
From what I've read, it is no secret or even matter of opinion that
Novitzky's misconduct enabled those in the net (most important, Bonds)
to escape the desired (by Novitzky) maximum legal punishment, leading
to the desired (by Novitzky) hysterical headline-grabbing, career-
making, book-signing return for the noble and good prosecutors who are
only ever trying to return sports to those halcyon days of yesteryear
when everyone played fair and only the good guys got book deals.

In short, due to his personal hatred and greed, Novitzky screwed the
taxpayers bigtime and Big Sports went on largely as before.

Lessons learned on both sides, Round Two?

dumbass,

so which is your position ? i) that it's a waste of resources to
pursue athletes for sporting violations or ii) that it's a
disappointment that novizky didn't get the convictions he was hoping
to ?

i take the former view, that it's the job of the sports leagues to
govern sports violations. though it's the job of the justice system to
catch lawbreakers, the violations we are talking about are really
sports violations rather than significant crimes or fraud against the
public.

It's the job of the rule makers and enforcers to set rules that can be
fairly and evenly enforced.
It's the job of enforcers to play fair so their work results in
convictions that will stick-- maybe even deter wasteful appeals (what
a concept!), not to waste millions of taxpayer dollars while
grandstanding for personal gain and letting personal hatred cloud
professional judgement.

Novitzsky? He's just one more snapshot in the rogue's gallery. For all
I know, nailing Bonds and BALCO to the wall might have been a positive
step but then, we'll never know after Novitzsky's foulups, will we?

Yes, "sporting violations" are sporting violations until you're
talking distributing controlled substances and so forth. "Render unto
Caesar".

Jeepers creepers, remember when the big scandal IRT bike racing (in
the USA press, of course) was "secret coalitions" between teams and
riders to produce desired race results ("fix" races)?
--D-y

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:05 am, --D-y wrote:

Snip..

, the violations we are talking about are really
sports violations rather than significant crimes or fraud against the
public.

What an idiot. The biggest crime against humanity here is fraud against the
public for stealing the spotlight for 7 years if he doped. That means it's
all one of the biggest hoaxes in the history of cycling, but only because he
won 7 tours. It casts a lot of doubt on the point that he was supposed the
be the greatest tour rider of all times.

Your emotional investment is showing, dude, and it's clearly overwhelmed
your reasoning.

Biggest hoaxes in history because he won a lot of tours? Because, I
suppose, all the other five-time winners were pure as the driven snow.
Anquetil did it on mineral water, as we all know. Even Saint Eddy
(gasp) was DQ's from the '69 Giro for drugs.


If true he molded and stole 7 years
of the TDF from not just fans, but riders,

Yes, all those clean riders that Lance stood above on the podium:
Ulrich, Basso, Kloden, Vinokourov, Rumsas(!), Zulle - the only ones(*)
without confessions, busts, or serious accusations are Beloki & Escartin
- and Beloki was "implicated" by Puerto, though later cleared "by
Spanish officials."

(*)Guys that podiumed at the tour when Armstrong won.

and countless other organizations
who supported and bought into the science of Lance. Do you think Giro, Nike
and Trek knew or thought he was cheating?

Did they /want/ to know?

The people affected all 7 years of
this is astronomical in scope. That is a crime against humanity,

Get some perspective, dude.

IF HE
DOPED.

Mark J.

Mark J. wrote:

Biggest hoaxes in history because he won a lot of tours? Because, I
suppose, all the other five-time winners were pure as the driven snow.
Anquetil did it on mineral water, as we all know. Even Saint Eddy
(gasp) was DQ's from the '69 Giro for drugs.

Not a lot of tours, 7 in a row. Get some perspective.


If true he molded and stole 7 years
of the TDF from not just fans, but riders,

Yes, all those clean riders that Lance stood above on the podium:
Ulrich, Basso, Kloden, Vinokourov, Rumsas(!), Zulle - the only ones(*)
without confessions, busts, or serious accusations are Beloki &
Escartin - and Beloki was "implicated" by Puerto, though later
cleared "by Spanish officials."

You missing the total context of what I typed. The doping equation has
already been established by many here as you know as fair use across the
board, although it's still breaking the rules. I said with the science of
Lance combined, if he was doping too, that gave him the culmulative unfair
advantage over the rest. However, if the doping agencies were rubber
stamping his tests, then the other riders got burned all along the way, the
ones who got busted anyway while his tests were called clean, not rubber
stamped. Of course there is no proof that the agencies rubber stamped
anything in a big corporate conspiracy. However, I never scratched my head
until recently about why Lance has never failed a test. I always thought he
was clean and that it was the Science of Lance that prevailed. If he never
failed a test, how did he do it if he was doping? Yeah, I have heard all the
ways they do it, but still, it makes me wonder about some aspects of this
mess.

and countless other organizations
who supported and bought into the science of Lance. Do you think
Giro, Nike and Trek knew or thought he was cheating?

Did they /want/ to know?

I am sure they did if he was. Nobody big corporate entity wants problems,
they usually run from them, like Tiger and others, but some are staying
onboard with Woods. His was less problmatic, just sex, lies and videotapes.
The videotapes have yet to surface if there are any. But a video tape of
blood doping would be devastating.

The people affected all 7 years of
this is astronomical in scope. That is a crime against humanity,

Get some perspective, dude.

I've got it, how about you?

On Jun 8, 9:32*am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:
For
crying out loud Ulrich never won and the German fans were so ****ed, they
were spitting on Lance at the tour.

You might want to check the results of the 1997 TdF. Oh, and later, he
got busted for dope.

As you and I previously discussed, I think the whole "Science of
Lance" as being a huge advantage for him is hogwash. He won because
he's got more talent, luck, attitude, preparation, and general racing
smarts than his other equally-advantaged competitors.

"Crime against humanity"? I really like pro and amateur sports of many
types, but I'm continually amazed by the views of people as to their
relative importance in society. To assign huge amounts of police and
scientific resources to make sure that the person I watch winning a
race is somehow "clean" (which, as we know, is impossible) isn't my
idea of a good way to use those resources.

Brad Anders