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Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"
S Curtiss Wrote: **Your reply here completely ignores the foundation you set above. You say in response to thousands of miles of added roads "This is a defeat for all of humanity, including you." yet state here "Wilderness is sacred because there is so little of it left." Yet you are going to whine like a child because somewhere on a trail there is a guy on a bicycle. It has already been established "Wilderness" designations do not allow bicycles. Why do you and Vandeman insist on arguing on something that is already established? Why do you insist on creating further friction between different user types when cooperation should be the largest concern to protect as much area as possible. The more development there is, the less fringe land there is for recreation which leads to less "wilderness" down the road. If you want to throw some sort religious connotation into the motives or results of purpose for venturing into any natural area, that is fine. However, this country is based on freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion. You can visit your "cathedral" your way as I can in my way. You have "wilderness" and many other areas either unsuitable for, or designated by law, to be non-accessible for bicycles. You have the recourse of law to call rangers or other authorities and report tresspass. So why this constant reference to keeping bikes out of "wilderness" when that is already established? If you want to maintain as much "wilderness" as possible, I would suggest allowing access to as much non-wilderness as possible. I would suggest some plain language and consistency in land designation. I would suggest getting as many "recreationists" into non-wilderness as possible to lend numbers to the decreasing voice of preservation. The more people to see land and forests for something beyond a new mall or house or hotel means more people to stand against the development. Either we share what we have, or we lose it all. That is one of the best posts that I have ever seen on here. I find your comparisons between religious groups and pressure groups to be an interesting one because it is so obvious it is easy to miss. MV and ED can be readily compared to religious fanatics who shout long and hard about how their way is the right way but do little to make things better for anyone and simply causes friction and spread mistrust between different factions of society. I dread to think how many cyclists have a negative attitude towards hikers with an "all hikers are fanatical arseholes so f**k you!" attitude that has been developed from the perceptions driven by MV, rather than absed on actual positive experiences. MV has not based his science on anything officially recognised and his acusations that everything that goes against his "facts" is controlled by a mountainbikers conspiracy is bizarre to say the very least. Surprisingly, underneath all the crap and the egomania and the accusations I think Vandeman makes a reasonably valid point to the extent that wilderness should be protected. This I agree with, however you also have to permit recreation away from developed urban areas. The solution is surely to ringfence and restrict all human activity within areas that are particularly sensitive (please don;t tell me that all areas are sensitive because this is not correct) to the effects of human activity and promote tolerance and mutual respect elsewhere such that the same space can be used by people with differing interests with minimal conflict. I would hope that MV would read this and think about his methods and his extremism, but deep down I know that it won't happen. I will continue to ride, but as always it will be in a responsible manner defined by my own moral code, the same moral code and responsible manner that I exercise whilst walking down the street, or when I am at work or even when I am hiking, times when you wouldn't even realise that I am a mountainbiking nut unless you started talking to me about bikes. -- davebee |
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Why People Mountain Bike: "the adventure of the ride is what gets my juices flowing"
On Mon, 29 May 2006 08:21:29 +1000, davebee
wrote: S Curtiss Wrote: **Your reply here completely ignores the foundation you set above. You say in response to thousands of miles of added roads "This is a defeat for all of humanity, including you." yet state here "Wilderness is sacred because there is so little of it left." Yet you are going to whine like a child because somewhere on a trail there is a guy on a bicycle. It has already been established "Wilderness" designations do not allow bicycles. Why do you and Vandeman insist on arguing on something that is already established? Why do you insist on creating further friction between different user types when cooperation should be the largest concern to protect as much area as possible. The more development there is, the less fringe land there is for recreation which leads to less "wilderness" down the road. If you want to throw some sort religious connotation into the motives or results of purpose for venturing into any natural area, that is fine. However, this country is based on freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion. You can visit your "cathedral" your way as I can in my way. You have "wilderness" and many other areas either unsuitable for, or designated by law, to be non-accessible for bicycles. You have the recourse of law to call rangers or other authorities and report tresspass. So why this constant reference to keeping bikes out of "wilderness" when that is already established? If you want to maintain as much "wilderness" as possible, I would suggest allowing access to as much non-wilderness as possible. I would suggest some plain language and consistency in land designation. I would suggest getting as many "recreationists" into non-wilderness as possible to lend numbers to the decreasing voice of preservation. The more people to see land and forests for something beyond a new mall or house or hotel means more people to stand against the development. Either we share what we have, or we lose it all. That is one of the best posts that I have ever seen on here. I find your comparisons between religious groups and pressure groups to be an interesting one because it is so obvious it is easy to miss. MV and ED can be readily compared to religious fanatics who shout long and hard about how their way is the right way but do little to make things better for anyone and simply causes friction and spread mistrust between different factions of society. I dread to think how many cyclists have a negative attitude towards hikers with an "all hikers are fanatical arseholes so f**k you!" attitude that has been developed from the perceptions driven by MV, rather than absed on actual positive experiences. MV has not based his science on anything officially recognised and his acusations that everything that goes against his "facts" is controlled by a mountainbikers conspiracy is bizarre to say the very least. Surprisingly, underneath all the crap and the egomania and the accusations I think Vandeman makes a reasonably valid point to the extent that wilderness should be protected. And wildlife. You forgot that part. This I agree with, however you also have to permit recreation away from developed urban areas. But there is absolutely no reason to allow BIKES off-road. THEY aren't alive, and don't need recreation. Are you really THAT dense? The solution is surely to ringfence and restrict all human activity within areas that are particularly sensitive (please don;t tell me that all areas are sensitive because this is not correct) to the effects of human activity and promote tolerance and mutual respect elsewhere such that the same space can be used by people with differing interests with minimal conflict. I would hope that MV would read this and think about his methods and his extremism, but deep down I know that it won't happen. I will continue to ride, That's your bottom line. You will never let consideration of wildlife or the environment interfere with your pet preoccupation. but as always it will be in a responsible manner defined by my own moral code, the same moral code and responsible manner that I exercise whilst walking down the street, or when I am at work or even when I am hiking, times when you wouldn't even realise that I am a mountainbiking nut unless you started talking to me about bikes. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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