State your opinion on COVID-19

On 3/30/2020 9:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

Remember that I originally said that this disease was self limiting? That it had to be in the population a great deal longer than guessed because it simply moved far too rapidly and widely to have been started in November?

OK, Tom, since you have this all figured out:

What do you think the U.S. and all these other countries should be doing
differently?

If it's as minor as you imply, should we drop this inconvenient "social
distancing"? Forget about medical staff using PPE? Tell everyone to skip
the doctor or hospital and just wait to get well at home? Open up the
restaurants, bars, shops, churches, gyms?

Exactly what is the proper strategy in your view? Because it's obvious
that most of the world isn't accepting your view.

The world needs your wisdom, including your _detailed_ instruction. Give it!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/30/2020 12:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 3/30/2020 10:31 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:34:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/29/2020 9:24 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Sunday, 29 March 2020 21:02:23 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:37:44 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:12:34 +0700, John B. wrote:


It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours
to plastic
for weeks.
also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed '

Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what
is Cu? and I
did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with
Credit Union
and ending with Coefficient of Utilization.
--
cheers,

John B.

Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper.

Cheers

Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or
Cardiac Unit,
or... :-)

Yes, any of those might have it too, but you wouldn't normally define
them as a surface

I was attempting to point out how ludicrous this constant use of
abbreviations is. I mean, well... if you can't spell than, what the
hell, just look it up.

But apparently I was being too subtle :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

A LOT of people use their cell phone to access this newsgroup and thus
rely on abbreviations to keep their texts shorter.

Chemists use them because they are understood regardless of language,
although I'm not sure what they do in non-Latin scripts.


Now there's a great question! And 'technical' too !
I had no idea but it turns out to be amazingly universal:

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...aElementov.png

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...huuki-hyou.png

Hey Mr Slocumb:
http://canov.jergym.cz/vyhledav/varianty/th.gif

Yup, seems to be a chart of how letters of the English alphabet are
pronounced. For Thai children, I'd guess.

I can't read Thai, but it's plainly a periodic table of the elements,
for Thai children learning chemistry, I'd guess. you can see the
pictures illustrating a use of each element, for example Mn (manganese)
is an i-beam, S (sulfur) is a vulcanized rubber tire, Co (cobalt) is a
magnet, H (hydrogen) is a zeppelin.

Sc (scandium) is a bicycle, I had no idea what that was about, but it
seems that scandium alluminum alloys are a thing:

http://www.konabikeworld.com/08_tech_scandium.htm

Nice find.


We've sold Scandium alloy aluminum Santanas for 20 years. Sorta 'old
tech' material. They're getting killed off by carbon Santanas now.

For C, the chart has a pencil -- get with the program, Thailand!

I had to figure out what Ba (barium) had to do with teapots:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bari...eapot&tbm=isch

I wonder if that feature of the chart was designed as an interesting puzzle?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/30/2020 12:12 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2020 5:58 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 29.03.2020 um 03:40 schrieb John B.:
how long does a
virus, or perhaps more accurately a virion, remain viable and able to
infect another creature if it is outside a living body. Or in simple
terms if a virion falls on the floor how long can it lay there and
still be capable of causing a disease?

This is completely unknown.* What we do know are some numbers how long
the virus DNA is detectable on various surfaces.* We do not know how
much virus load is needed to trigger an infection (with measles it's
very few, with COVID, it's probably a lot), and we don't know how long
the virus stays in an active form outside the body.

The only thing that we can safely say is that smear contagion is a very
minor source of infection compared to droplet contagion.

So how much are you willing to bet on it?

I had been wondering about required viral load with this virus, with the
understanding that it is probably an unknown.

Regarding "smear contagion": I've seen a photograph of a certain very
intelligent guy - an online colleague whom I've met - spraying down his
groceries in his driveway. According to this article, that's probably
gross overkill:
https://vitals.lifehacker.com/you-do...ies-1842528397

Your online colleague might be both overdoing it and not using effective
means to destroy the virus before whirling it at his direction, but he
probably is more intelligent than some journo who warns her rather clueless
readership about ingesting soap.

Yes, the soap remark was strange. But getting back to the matter of
groceries, there's this:

"... currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being
associated with transmission of COVID-19." That's from
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety...-2019-covid-19


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/30/2020 12:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 3/30/2020 10:31 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:34:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/29/2020 9:24 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Sunday, 29 March 2020 21:02:23 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:37:44 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:12:34 +0700, John B. wrote:


It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours
to plastic
for weeks.
also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed '

Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what
is Cu? and I
did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with
Credit Union
and ending with Coefficient of Utilization.
--
cheers,

John B.

Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper.

Cheers

Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or
Cardiac Unit,
or... :-)

Yes, any of those might have it too, but you wouldn't normally define
them as a surface

I was attempting to point out how ludicrous this constant use of
abbreviations is. I mean, well... if you can't spell than, what the
hell, just look it up.

But apparently I was being too subtle :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

A LOT of people use their cell phone to access this newsgroup and thus
rely on abbreviations to keep their texts shorter.

Chemists use them because they are understood regardless of language,
although I'm not sure what they do in non-Latin scripts.


Now there's a great question! And 'technical' too !
I had no idea but it turns out to be amazingly universal:

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...aElementov.png

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...huuki-hyou.png

Hey Mr Slocumb:
http://canov.jergym.cz/vyhledav/varianty/th.gif

Yup, seems to be a chart of how letters of the English alphabet are
pronounced. For Thai children, I'd guess.

I can't read Thai, but it's plainly a periodic table of the elements,
for Thai children learning chemistry, I'd guess. you can see the
pictures illustrating a use of each element, for example Mn (manganese)
is an i-beam, S (sulfur) is a vulcanized rubber tire, Co (cobalt) is a
magnet, H (hydrogen) is a zeppelin.

Sc (scandium) is a bicycle, I had no idea what that was about, but it
seems that scandium alluminum alloys are a thing:

http://www.konabikeworld.com/08_tech_scandium.htm

Nice find.


We've sold Scandium alloy aluminum Santanas for 20 years. Sorta 'old
tech' material. They're getting killed off by carbon Santanas now.

For C, the chart has a pencil -- get with the program, Thailand!

I had to figure out what Ba (barium) had to do with teapots:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bari...eapot&tbm=isch

I wonder if that feature of the chart was designed as an interesting puzzle?

If you read Thai you might know. It certainly works that way for me.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/30/2020 12:12 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2020 5:58 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 29.03.2020 um 03:40 schrieb John B.:
how long does a
virus, or perhaps more accurately a virion, remain viable and able to
infect another creature if it is outside a living body. Or in simple
terms if a virion falls on the floor how long can it lay there and
still be capable of causing a disease?

This is completely unknown.Â* What we do know are some numbers how long
the virus DNA is detectable on various surfaces.Â* We do not know how
much virus load is needed to trigger an infection (with measles it's
very few, with COVID, it's probably a lot), and we don't know how long
the virus stays in an active form outside the body.

The only thing that we can safely say is that smear contagion is a very
minor source of infection compared to droplet contagion.

So how much are you willing to bet on it?

I had been wondering about required viral load with this virus, with the
understanding that it is probably an unknown.

Regarding "smear contagion": I've seen a photograph of a certain very
intelligent guy - an online colleague whom I've met - spraying down his
groceries in his driveway. According to this article, that's probably
gross overkill:
https://vitals.lifehacker.com/you-do...ies-1842528397

Your online colleague might be both overdoing it and not using effective
means to destroy the virus before whirling it at his direction, but he
probably is more intelligent than some journo who warns her rather clueless
readership about ingesting soap.

Yes, the soap remark was strange. But getting back to the matter of
groceries, there's this:

"... currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being
associated with transmission of COVID-19." That's from
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety...-2019-covid-19

The medical profession seems to have trouble with admitting that absence
of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I was struck by this sentence:

If you are concerned about contamination of food and food packaging you
have purchased from the grocery store, wash your hands after handling
food and food packages when you return from the grocery store and after
removing packaging from food.

Because we typically did not remove packaging from food until we're
ready to use it, keeping it in the original bags or boxes. Now we
either remove it from packaging in a "dirty" area, or wipe down the
packaging. But you will do as you see fit. Ohio actually seems to be
in pretty good shape.

Am 30.03.2020 um 20:18 schrieb Radey Shouman:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/30/2020 12:12 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2020 5:58 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 29.03.2020 um 03:40 schrieb John B.:

The only thing that we can safely say is that smear contagion is a very
minor source of infection compared to droplet contagion.

So how much are you willing to bet on it?

Regarding "smear contagion": I've seen a photograph of a certain very
intelligent guy - an online colleague whom I've met - spraying down his
groceries in his driveway. According to this article, that's probably
gross overkill:
https://vitals.lifehacker.com/you-do...ies-1842528397

Your online colleague might be both overdoing it and not using effective
means to destroy the virus before whirling it at his direction, but he
probably is more intelligent than some journo who warns her rather clueless
readership about ingesting soap.

Yes, the soap remark was strange. But getting back to the matter of
groceries, there's this:

"... currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being
associated with transmission of COVID-19." That's from
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety...-2019-covid-19

The medical profession seems to have trouble with admitting that absence
of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Given that I personally need a certain trust in my environment as a
precondition for my mental well-being, I was able to decide that I will
protect against droplet contagion as much as I can easily do (I am not
afraid passing other pedestrians with only 1m distance if there's no
easy way of keeping 2m distance on the ground that I won't stay close
for more than a few seconds). I personally protect against smear
contagion by washing my hands regularly, including immediately after
coming into the house (and I get mad at my son if he refuses to wash his
hands).

Given the good German health system, my good health and age, I am taking
the risk not to be paranoid about infection. I trust my wife and kids
to be infection-free, or I'd go mental (if one in the family catches it,
there's a 90% that the others catch it as well). I contact my
brother and sister who are medical doctors and my parents who are higher
risk due to age only by phone.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:31:50 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:34:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/29/2020 9:24 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Sunday, 29 March 2020 21:02:23 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:37:44 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:12:34 +0700, John B. wrote:


It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic
for weeks.
also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed '

Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what is Cu? and I
did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with Credit Union
and ending with Coefficient of Utilization.
--
cheers,

John B.

Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper.

Cheers

Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or Cardiac Unit,
or... :-)

Yes, any of those might have it too, but you wouldn't normally define
them as a surface

I was attempting to point out how ludicrous this constant use of
abbreviations is. I mean, well... if you can't spell than, what the
hell, just look it up.

But apparently I was being too subtle :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

A LOT of people use their cell phone to access this newsgroup and thus
rely on abbreviations to keep their texts shorter.

Chemists use them because they are understood regardless of language,
although I'm not sure what they do in non-Latin scripts.


Now there's a great question! And 'technical' too !
I had no idea but it turns out to be amazingly universal:

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...aElementov.png

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...huuki-hyou.png

Hey Mr Slocumb:
http://canov.jergym.cz/vyhledav/varianty/th.gif

Yup, seems to be a chart of how letters of the English alphabet are
pronounced. For Thai children, I'd guess.

I can't read Thai, but it's plainly a periodic table of the elements,
for Thai children learning chemistry, I'd guess. you can see the
pictures illustrating a use of each element, for example Mn (manganese)
is an i-beam, S (sulfur) is a vulcanized rubber tire, Co (cobalt) is a
magnet, H (hydrogen) is a zeppelin.

Sc (scandium) is a bicycle, I had no idea what that was about, but it
seems that scandium alluminum alloys are a thing:

http://www.konabikeworld.com/08_tech_scandium.htm

Nice find.

No sorry, it is a chart to show children how to pronounce English
letters. Look at "4" in the L.H. column, for example. It shows a "K"
and a picture of a banana. Banana in Thai is "Koo-ay" (with a falling
tone :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 06:14:44 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 3:20:29 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:59:19 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

and see how everyone's doing.

We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated
picnic. She has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to
eat. Other friends (we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as
careful, but no masks.


My wife and I have been in self-imposed lockdown for around two
weeks now.
We only go out for groceries. It wasn’t too much of a leap, since
I’m retired and doing a minimal amount of contract work from home
(although I did lose an interesting contract which might have
required travel to Kentucky). Our only real source of exposure is
our daughter, who lives with us and works in a grocery store.

You can find the map on the John Hopkins site. If you look at the
places effected it is everywhere. What I said before is that this
stuff had to be around since August. .

NO disease can move as fast as Fauci is claiming.

You display total ignorance of how much global travel there is. not
just glbal trade in good, but also services/people.

How do you thing iran got it so fast, fly in chinese labourers on a
project.

Then there is tourism which is one major economic forces. For
Australia, there is an enomous amont of external toursm at any one
time. Apparently 1 milllion Of 25 million population is overseas at any
one time. There has to be a similar of foreign tourists coming into
this country at any one time. with the growing personal wealth in
china, a lot of them come to Australia as a tourist It is not just the
major cities, but pokey country town suddenly finding they have
busloads of Chinese tourists who turn upto view something as simple as
the local salt lakes, because they appear pink and some one shared a
picture. that it ignoring he hoardses that come for the wildlife.

This all adds up to a hell of a lot of carriers. What our GovCo does
know here is that all* infected detected here have links back to Wuhan
initially or some place that received visitors from Wuhan since t was
first detected.

* There is only now, 4 months later are they acknowledging that ~25%
can not NOW be traced back.

d they have been in

The

Unlike you, I've spent my life being an actual scientist.

aah, The definition they teach to high chool kids where every one who
investigates a problem is a scientist,

I don't play at being one like you.

So that is why you totally ignored my pont about the amount of global
travel.

Tell us all what training you've had in science.
Define science and define training(the stuff they do with monkeys)

I have a science education spanning decades.

or what you've ever done except read an article in the Canberra Express
to make you such an expert?
Which Canberra Express?

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 05:59:42 +0700, John B. wrote:



No sorry, it is a chart to show children how to pronounce English
letters. Look at "4" in the L.H. column, for example. It shows a "K" and
a picture of a banana. Banana in Thai is "Koo-ay" (with a falling tone
:-)
Bananas are a good source of Potassion(K).
Better than potash.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:02:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2020 12:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 3/30/2020 10:31 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:34:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/29/2020 9:24 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Sunday, 29 March 2020 21:02:23 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:37:44 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:12:34 +0700, John B. wrote:


It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours
to plastic
for weeks.
also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed '

Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what
is Cu? and I
did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with
Credit Union
and ending with Coefficient of Utilization.
--
cheers,

John B.

Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper.

Cheers

Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or
Cardiac Unit,
or... :-)

Yes, any of those might have it too, but you wouldn't normally define
them as a surface

I was attempting to point out how ludicrous this constant use of
abbreviations is. I mean, well... if you can't spell than, what the
hell, just look it up.

But apparently I was being too subtle :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

A LOT of people use their cell phone to access this newsgroup and thus
rely on abbreviations to keep their texts shorter.

Chemists use them because they are understood regardless of language,
although I'm not sure what they do in non-Latin scripts.


Now there's a great question! And 'technical' too !
I had no idea but it turns out to be amazingly universal:

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...aElementov.png

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/...huuki-hyou.png

Hey Mr Slocumb:
http://canov.jergym.cz/vyhledav/varianty/th.gif

Yup, seems to be a chart of how letters of the English alphabet are
pronounced. For Thai children, I'd guess.

I can't read Thai, but it's plainly a periodic table of the elements,
for Thai children learning chemistry, I'd guess. you can see the
pictures illustrating a use of each element, for example Mn (manganese)
is an i-beam, S (sulfur) is a vulcanized rubber tire, Co (cobalt) is a
magnet, H (hydrogen) is a zeppelin.

Sc (scandium) is a bicycle, I had no idea what that was about, but it
seems that scandium alluminum alloys are a thing:

http://www.konabikeworld.com/08_tech_scandium.htm

Nice find.


We've sold Scandium alloy aluminum Santanas for 20 years. Sorta 'old
tech' material. They're getting killed off by carbon Santanas now.

For C, the chart has a pencil -- get with the program, Thailand!

I had to figure out what Ba (barium) had to do with teapots:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bari...eapot&tbm=isch

I wonder if that feature of the chart was designed as an interesting puzzle?

Nope :-) It really is a graphic to show (probably) pre-school kids how
to pronounce English language letters :-)

See... to a Thai English is an almost incomprehensible language :-)
--
cheers,

John B.