Interbike 2018 Report

sms wrote:

No signs the 32-630 (27x1-1/4) tire is
making a comeback?

LOL. No, but a 27.5" tire is only
a little bigger.

These tires are virtually identical in applied
height - using a folding ruler, and leaving the
wheels mounted on the bike, both are about
27-1/2" or 70cm.

This is one example where the English system is
handy, and the ISO can be confusing.


ISO / ETRTO England France
--------------------------------------------------------------
56-584 27.5 x 2.20 650x56B wide MTB 27.5
32-630 27 x 1-1/4 old RB


--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 2018-09-21 08:47, sms wrote:
Headed up there yesterday, for the day. It's now in Reno, so from the
Bay Area it's easier to drive than fly. The show has shrunk considerably
from its heyday. But they had a bike that would probably be
Jorge-Approved, and a light that might be Frank-Approved, though those
are very high bars. Grant Peterson had several Jay-compatible models on
display in the Rivendell booth, but he didn't have an aluminum model
with a carbon-fiber fork, and disc brakes.

Rather than post the report here, I put it up on Google Docs, including
photos.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wAiw__UK7KkYw1CO2lbSIdy14p0LXdH8RpnVqneDv5k


Thanks. The growler bike looks classic but I don't plan on using E-bikes
until I am 85 or so.

Is the bottom left picture on page 1 depicting a whiskey flask? The kind
that John Wayne would throw his horse riding buddy before a gun fight?
That would make a bike ride quite interesting. "No free beer" is ok as
long as they sell good microbrew at reasonable prices. Though the show
would probably not be too interesting for me because all this stuff
trends too much in the direction of E-bikes. I prefer muscle power.

As for the "ultimate new edible" I have yet to see any bike-specific
fare that I wouldn't want to spit out into the sand. I even gave up on
regular nut bars except for rides under 20mi. Too much sugar. Over 20mi
I carry home-baked bread with generous layers of cheese and sausage. The
real bread, of course, with the starter dough made from beer
fermentation residue (trub), bread dough kneaded using an electric power
drill and baked outdoors over manzanita fire.

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens of
bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly squished lemon
juice. Which is a byproduct in our household because my wife makes her
own Limoncello and the peeled lemons are sort of left over. Nothing goes
to waste here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

Thanks.

Thanks for the report sms.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 9/24/2018 2:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens of
bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly squished lemon
juice. Which is a byproduct in our household because my wife makes her
own Limoncello and the peeled lemons are sort of left over. Nothing goes
to waste here.

The tablets are kind of like the old Fizzies. When my wife did a trek up
Machu Picchu a couple of months ago they encourage the participants to
use electrolyte tablets or powder. Fizzies looks they carbonate better.
But they are no longer available.

On 2018-09-26 08:04, sms wrote:
On 9/24/2018 2:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens of
bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly squished lemon
juice. Which is a byproduct in our household because my wife makes her
own Limoncello and the peeled lemons are sort of left over. Nothing
goes to waste here.

The tablets are kind of like the old Fizzies. When my wife did a trek up
Machu Picchu a couple of months ago they encourage the participants to
use electrolyte tablets or powder. Fizzies looks they carbonate better.
But they are no longer available.


Carbonation would be nice and the powder, of course, can't do that. It's
ok, I only gulp that down because it has to be done or I'd get leg
cramps, latest during the night after a long ride which is always real
fun. Since using fresh lemon juice in it the taste is actually quite
good and feels more refreshing.

If I want something carbonated during a ride I take my old stainless
steel office thermos, pre-chill it and then fill it with homebrew IPA,
leaving 1" of head space so it won't explode. After several hours of
trail riding ... POOF .. phssss ... and a nice cool brewsky comes out.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 2:12:40 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-21 08:47, sms wrote:
Headed up there yesterday, for the day. It's now in Reno, so from the
Bay Area it's easier to drive than fly. The show has shrunk considerably
from its heyday. But they had a bike that would probably be
Jorge-Approved, and a light that might be Frank-Approved, though those
are very high bars. Grant Peterson had several Jay-compatible models on
display in the Rivendell booth, but he didn't have an aluminum model
with a carbon-fiber fork, and disc brakes.

Rather than post the report here, I put it up on Google Docs, including
photos.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wAiw__UK7KkYw1CO2lbSIdy14p0LXdH8RpnVqneDv5k


Thanks. The growler bike looks classic but I don't plan on using E-bikes
until I am 85 or so.

Is the bottom left picture on page 1 depicting a whiskey flask? The kind
that John Wayne would throw his horse riding buddy before a gun fight?
That would make a bike ride quite interesting. "No free beer" is ok as
long as they sell good microbrew at reasonable prices. Though the show
would probably not be too interesting for me because all this stuff
trends too much in the direction of E-bikes. I prefer muscle power.

As for the "ultimate new edible" I have yet to see any bike-specific
fare that I wouldn't want to spit out into the sand. I even gave up on
regular nut bars except for rides under 20mi. Too much sugar. Over 20mi
I carry home-baked bread with generous layers of cheese and sausage. The
real bread, of course, with the starter dough made from beer
fermentation residue (trub), bread dough kneaded using an electric power
drill and baked outdoors over manzanita fire.

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens of
bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly squished lemon
juice. Which is a byproduct in our household because my wife makes her
own Limoncello and the peeled lemons are sort of left over. Nothing goes
to waste here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You know Joerg, you remind me of a good friend who is so set in his ways that he won't even bother to investigate anything new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No

On 2018-09-26 08:36, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 2:12:40 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-21 08:47, sms wrote:
Headed up there yesterday, for the day. It's now in Reno, so from
the Bay Area it's easier to drive than fly. The show has shrunk
considerably from its heyday. But they had a bike that would
probably be Jorge-Approved, and a light that might be
Frank-Approved, though those are very high bars. Grant Peterson
had several Jay-compatible models on display in the Rivendell
booth, but he didn't have an aluminum model with a carbon-fiber
fork, and disc brakes.

Rather than post the report here, I put it up on Google Docs,
including photos.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wAiw__UK7KkYw1CO2lbSIdy14p0LXdH8RpnVqneDv5k




Thanks. The growler bike looks classic but I don't plan on using E-bikes
until I am 85 or so.

Is the bottom left picture on page 1 depicting a whiskey flask? The
kind that John Wayne would throw his horse riding buddy before a
gun fight? That would make a bike ride quite interesting. "No free
beer" is ok as long as they sell good microbrew at reasonable
prices. Though the show would probably not be too interesting for
me because all this stuff trends too much in the direction of
E-bikes. I prefer muscle power.

As for the "ultimate new edible" I have yet to see any
bike-specific fare that I wouldn't want to spit out into the sand.
I even gave up on regular nut bars except for rides under 20mi. Too
much sugar. Over 20mi I carry home-baked bread with generous layers
of cheese and sausage. The real bread, of course, with the starter
dough made from beer fermentation residue (trub), bread dough
kneaded using an electric power drill and baked outdoors over
manzanita fire.

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens of
bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly squished
lemon juice. Which is a byproduct in our household because my wife
makes her own Limoncello and the peeled lemons are sort of left
over. Nothing goes to waste here.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You know Joerg, you remind me of a good friend who is so set in his
ways that he won't even bother to investigate anything new.


I have investigated. Regarding food pretty much all the cyclist's stuff
including "astronaut pouches" that my sister uses. Bleccchhhh. I've even
gone away from the nut bars I used to like a lot. Tastes too sugary by
now and I am just not a fan of anything sweet. I found that good old
bread with cheese and cold cuts is way better on bike rides. Home-baked
bread, of course, not this soft rubbery store-bought stuff.

Lo and behold another rider now went the same way so when we bake he
swings by and takes a few pounds home. Except he is a vegetarian so no
cold cuts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFjqPoVc84

Seen too many other riders with tubeless who got stranded. Needless to
say they didn't carry a spare tube. Once I even had to cram my 29" spare
tube into someones 26" MTB. At least that got him home.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:05:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:36, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 2:12:40 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-21 08:47, sms wrote:
Headed up there yesterday, for the day. It's now in Reno, so from
the Bay Area it's easier to drive than fly. The show has shrunk
considerably from its heyday. But they had a bike that would
probably be Jorge-Approved, and a light that might be
Frank-Approved, though those are very high bars. Grant Peterson
had several Jay-compatible models on display in the Rivendell
booth, but he didn't have an aluminum model with a carbon-fiber
fork, and disc brakes.

Rather than post the report here, I put it up on Google Docs,
including photos.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wAiw__UK7KkYw1CO2lbSIdy14p0LXdH8RpnVqneDv5k




Thanks. The growler bike looks classic but I don't plan on using E-bikes
until I am 85 or so.

Is the bottom left picture on page 1 depicting a whiskey flask? The
kind that John Wayne would throw his horse riding buddy before a
gun fight? That would make a bike ride quite interesting. "No free
beer" is ok as long as they sell good microbrew at reasonable
prices. Though the show would probably not be too interesting for
me because all this stuff trends too much in the direction of
E-bikes. I prefer muscle power.

As for the "ultimate new edible" I have yet to see any
bike-specific fare that I wouldn't want to spit out into the sand.
I even gave up on regular nut bars except for rides under 20mi. Too
much sugar. Over 20mi I carry home-baked bread with generous layers
of cheese and sausage. The real bread, of course, with the starter
dough made from beer fermentation residue (trub), bread dough
kneaded using an electric power drill and baked outdoors over
manzanita fire.

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens of
bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly squished
lemon juice. Which is a byproduct in our household because my wife
makes her own Limoncello and the peeled lemons are sort of left
over. Nothing goes to waste here.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You know Joerg, you remind me of a good friend who is so set in his
ways that he won't even bother to investigate anything new.


I have investigated. Regarding food pretty much all the cyclist's stuff
including "astronaut pouches" that my sister uses. Bleccchhhh. I've even
gone away from the nut bars I used to like a lot. Tastes too sugary by
now and I am just not a fan of anything sweet. I found that good old
bread with cheese and cold cuts is way better on bike rides.


What is "way better?" Way better in tying up your digestive tract with fat and protein? Taking sandwiches and beer on the Trail of Terror is perfectly fine, but if you're riding tempo on a road bike over hill and dell for hours, you'll want carbs. Bread cannot be digested quickly and is not a good source of on-bike carbs. It's great for picnic sandwiches, however -- if you like sandwiches. I'd prefer some fried chicken and watermelon -- which we know you can strap to your rack. Maybe some corn on the cob.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFjqPoVc84

Seen too many other riders with tubeless who got stranded. Needless to
say they didn't carry a spare tube. Once I even had to cram my 29" spare
tube into someones 26" MTB. At least that got him home.

That MTB video tells us nothing about the cause of the flat -- or if anything would have prevented the flat short of solid tires. The flat could have been caused by burping. Look how low he inflates the tire with his hand pump.

OTOH, the video from Cycling Weekly covers about every flat producing hazard ordinarily encountered by a road cyclist -- nails, glasses, tacks. I think the tack experiment produced far more punctures than any roadie will see with goatheads, unless he or she goes overland through the brambles.

I'm not running out to buy tubeless, but you cannot deny that the demonstration was impressive -- and a demonstration as opposed to dopes stranded on a trail somewhere who encountered unknown hazards and flatted a tubeless tire. You can flat any tire, including your tires with uber thick tubes and tire liners.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2018-09-26 14:12, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:05:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:36, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 2:12:40 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-21 08:47, sms wrote:
Headed up there yesterday, for the day. It's now in Reno, so
from the Bay Area it's easier to drive than fly. The show has
shrunk considerably from its heyday. But they had a bike that
would probably be Jorge-Approved, and a light that might be
Frank-Approved, though those are very high bars. Grant
Peterson had several Jay-compatible models on display in the
Rivendell booth, but he didn't have an aluminum model with a
carbon-fiber fork, and disc brakes.

Rather than post the report here, I put it up on Google
Docs, including photos.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wAiw__UK7KkYw1CO2lbSIdy14p0LXdH8RpnVqneDv5k






Thanks. The growler bike looks classic but I don't plan on using E-bikes
until I am 85 or so.

Is the bottom left picture on page 1 depicting a whiskey flask?
The kind that John Wayne would throw his horse riding buddy
before a gun fight? That would make a bike ride quite
interesting. "No free beer" is ok as long as they sell good
microbrew at reasonable prices. Though the show would probably
not be too interesting for me because all this stuff trends too
much in the direction of E-bikes. I prefer muscle power.

As for the "ultimate new edible" I have yet to see any
bike-specific fare that I wouldn't want to spit out into the
sand. I even gave up on regular nut bars except for rides under
20mi. Too much sugar. Over 20mi I carry home-baked bread with
generous layers of cheese and sausage. The real bread, of
course, with the starter dough made from beer fermentation
residue (trub), bread dough kneaded using an electric power
drill and baked outdoors over manzanita fire.

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens
of bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly
squished lemon juice. Which is a byproduct in our household
because my wife makes her own Limoncello and the peeled lemons
are sort of left over. Nothing goes to waste here.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You know Joerg, you remind me of a good friend who is so set in
his ways that he won't even bother to investigate anything new.


I have investigated. Regarding food pretty much all the cyclist's
stuff including "astronaut pouches" that my sister uses.
Bleccchhhh. I've even gone away from the nut bars I used to like a
lot. Tastes too sugary by now and I am just not a fan of anything
sweet. I found that good old bread with cheese and cold cuts is way
better on bike rides.


What is "way better?"


The taste, the taste.


... Way better in tying up your digestive tract
with fat and protein? Taking sandwiches and beer on the Trail of
Terror is perfectly fine, but if you're riding tempo on a road bike
over hill and dell for hours, you'll want carbs.


We do that regularly, either on road bikes or for hours on a trail.
There is only one other rider who favors bread over the sugary stuff
though (but only if it's our trub bread) and he eats it with nothing but
almond butter.


... Bread cannot be
digested quickly and is not a good source of on-bike carbs. It's
great for picnic sandwiches, however -- if you like sandwiches. I'd
prefer some fried chicken and watermelon -- which we know you can
strap to your rack. Maybe some corn on the cob.


Ok, I don't have Tour de France ambitions. I just found it gives me a
feeling of not feeling hungry during the rest of the ride and the slow
release of energy hasn't been an issue. I know that a dextrose bomb
could give me Speedy Gonzales capabilities for a short time, it's just
that I don't like sweet stuff. I carry a couple tablets through in case
I come across a bike rider or hiker who has totally bonked (which has
happened).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFjqPoVc84

Seen too many other riders with tubeless who got stranded. Needless
to say they didn't carry a spare tube. Once I even had to cram my
29" spare tube into someones 26" MTB. At least that got him home.

That MTB video tells us nothing about the cause of the flat -- or if
anything would have prevented the flat short of solid tires. The
flat could have been caused by burping. Look how low he inflates the
tire with his hand pump.


Burping is the other problem with tubeless. Doesn't happen with tubes.


OTOH, the video from Cycling Weekly covers about every flat producing
hazard ordinarily encountered by a road cyclist -- nails, glasses,
tacks. I think the tack experiment produced far more punctures than
any roadie will see with goatheads, unless he or she goes overland
through the brambles.


Not quite. Goat's heads have longer thorns and they are also quite
conical, making the hole much wider than a thumbtack can. According to
Murphy's Law they are always positioned with the straight long thorn
pointing up.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...idum_seeds.jpg


I'm not running out to buy tubeless, but you cannot deny that the
demonstration was impressive -- and a demonstration as opposed to
dopes stranded on a trail somewhere who encountered unknown hazards
and flatted a tubeless tire. You can flat any tire, including your
tires with uber thick tubes and tire liners.


It was impressive. Same when I watched similar youtube videos from the
slime tube guys. I was impressed so I went out and bought some. Not
cheap. In the end that was a mistake because it's just a matter of time
until the slime can't handle it anymore. Of course, per Murphy's law my
time was up almost at the farthest end on the trail.

IMO there is nothing better than tire liner plus thick tubes. Except for
even thicker tubes.

Most people can't believe what I have under the MTB tires. Mr.Tuffy
brown tire liners stuffed inside slit second "regular" tubes of good
quality, then tubes with 0.160" or 4mm wall thickness. Flats in all
those years: None. So I did that for the road bike as well which also
dropped its number of flats to zero. Only thing is the chafing between
the tire liner and the thick tube. I'll have to slide the liner into a
thin tube first but it'll be diffiuclt to cram all that in.

The other upside is that I can now ride tires down to their last sliver
of tread.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 2:59:38 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 14:12, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:05:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:36, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 2:12:40 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-21 08:47, sms wrote:
Headed up there yesterday, for the day. It's now in Reno, so
from the Bay Area it's easier to drive than fly. The show has
shrunk considerably from its heyday. But they had a bike that
would probably be Jorge-Approved, and a light that might be
Frank-Approved, though those are very high bars. Grant
Peterson had several Jay-compatible models on display in the
Rivendell booth, but he didn't have an aluminum model with a
carbon-fiber fork, and disc brakes.

Rather than post the report here, I put it up on Google
Docs, including photos.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wAiw__UK7KkYw1CO2lbSIdy14p0LXdH8RpnVqneDv5k






Thanks. The growler bike looks classic but I don't plan on using E-bikes
until I am 85 or so.

Is the bottom left picture on page 1 depicting a whiskey flask?
The kind that John Wayne would throw his horse riding buddy
before a gun fight? That would make a bike ride quite
interesting. "No free beer" is ok as long as they sell good
microbrew at reasonable prices. Though the show would probably
not be too interesting for me because all this stuff trends too
much in the direction of E-bikes. I prefer muscle power.

As for the "ultimate new edible" I have yet to see any
bike-specific fare that I wouldn't want to spit out into the
sand. I even gave up on regular nut bars except for rides under
20mi. Too much sugar. Over 20mi I carry home-baked bread with
generous layers of cheese and sausage. The real bread, of
course, with the starter dough made from beer fermentation
residue (trub), bread dough kneaded using an electric power
drill and baked outdoors over manzanita fire.

For electrolyte I use simple Emergen-C powder. $10 makes dozens
of bottles. Since it tastes a bit medicinal we add freshly
squished lemon juice. Which is a byproduct in our household
because my wife makes her own Limoncello and the peeled lemons
are sort of left over. Nothing goes to waste here.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You know Joerg, you remind me of a good friend who is so set in
his ways that he won't even bother to investigate anything new.


I have investigated. Regarding food pretty much all the cyclist's
stuff including "astronaut pouches" that my sister uses.
Bleccchhhh. I've even gone away from the nut bars I used to like a
lot. Tastes too sugary by now and I am just not a fan of anything
sweet. I found that good old bread with cheese and cold cuts is way
better on bike rides.


What is "way better?"


The taste, the taste.


... Way better in tying up your digestive tract
with fat and protein? Taking sandwiches and beer on the Trail of
Terror is perfectly fine, but if you're riding tempo on a road bike
over hill and dell for hours, you'll want carbs.


We do that regularly, either on road bikes or for hours on a trail.
There is only one other rider who favors bread over the sugary stuff
though (but only if it's our trub bread) and he eats it with nothing but
almond butter.


... Bread cannot be
digested quickly and is not a good source of on-bike carbs. It's
great for picnic sandwiches, however -- if you like sandwiches. I'd
prefer some fried chicken and watermelon -- which we know you can
strap to your rack. Maybe some corn on the cob.


Ok, I don't have Tour de France ambitions. I just found it gives me a
feeling of not feeling hungry during the rest of the ride and the slow
release of energy hasn't been an issue. I know that a dextrose bomb
could give me Speedy Gonzales capabilities for a short time, it's just
that I don't like sweet stuff. I carry a couple tablets through in case
I come across a bike rider or hiker who has totally bonked (which has
happened).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFjqPoVc84

Seen too many other riders with tubeless who got stranded. Needless
to say they didn't carry a spare tube. Once I even had to cram my
29" spare tube into someones 26" MTB. At least that got him home.

That MTB video tells us nothing about the cause of the flat -- or if
anything would have prevented the flat short of solid tires. The
flat could have been caused by burping. Look how low he inflates the
tire with his hand pump.


Burping is the other problem with tubeless. Doesn't happen with tubes.


OTOH, the video from Cycling Weekly covers about every flat producing
hazard ordinarily encountered by a road cyclist -- nails, glasses,
tacks. I think the tack experiment produced far more punctures than
any roadie will see with goatheads, unless he or she goes overland
through the brambles.


Not quite. Goat's heads have longer thorns and they are also quite
conical, making the hole much wider than a thumbtack can. According to
Murphy's Law they are always positioned with the straight long thorn
pointing up.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...idum_seeds.jpg


I'm not running out to buy tubeless, but you cannot deny that the
demonstration was impressive -- and a demonstration as opposed to
dopes stranded on a trail somewhere who encountered unknown hazards
and flatted a tubeless tire. You can flat any tire, including your
tires with uber thick tubes and tire liners.


It was impressive. Same when I watched similar youtube videos from the
slime tube guys. I was impressed so I went out and bought some. Not
cheap. In the end that was a mistake because it's just a matter of time
until the slime can't handle it anymore. Of course, per Murphy's law my
time was up almost at the farthest end on the trail.

IMO there is nothing better than tire liner plus thick tubes. Except for
even thicker tubes.

Most people can't believe what I have under the MTB tires. Mr.Tuffy
brown tire liners stuffed inside slit second "regular" tubes of good
quality, then tubes with 0.160" or 4mm wall thickness. Flats in all
those years: None. So I did that for the road bike as well which also
dropped its number of flats to zero. Only thing is the chafing between
the tire liner and the thick tube. I'll have to slide the liner into a
thin tube first but it'll be diffiuclt to cram all that in.

The other upside is that I can now ride tires down to their last sliver
of tread.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I have found that stopping for a REAL sandwich is FAR FAR better than pretending to be a Tour rider and eating chemically treated body waste from a camel.

I spend a half hour afterwards at a moderate pace and the longer in the ride it is the better I feel. I'm now returning home feeling better than when I left.

Of course there are always those that believe that chemicals are much better than food.