Commentary: Cleared or not, Landis is a loser

"Donald Munro" wrote in message
. com...
Caroline wrote:
LOL! You're cute. No, I'm a mean bitch who rides a broom and chases
down
Cat 5s for drafting on road ref vehicles! '-(

Hopefully its a carbon fibre broom.


Pinarello Magnesium Witches Swoosh Premier! How else can I make the sparks
fly?

I've been thinking... Some of you may have the idea that I am against the
amnesty for riders. That's not the case at all. I'm all for that.

Caroline

"Donald Munro" wrote in message
. com...
wrote:
that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."

So what if Aldag et al had decided not to do what everyone else was doing
? They'd have lost their contracts at the end of the season and would have
been replaced by neo-pros or amateurs who were taking. It may seem easy
for you to condemn from your ivory tower, but it was their careers not
just a fatty master saturday criterium.


Wow! There's a whole flock just flew over your head and you didn't see one
of them! THAT is my point! And WHO puts the pressure on the athletes to
dope? Why don't all of these "agencies" go after the ones who are PROMOTING
the damned doping? Give amnesty to the riders and announce that any UCI
team caught doping will have all management/support/training personnel
banned for ten years or more... I suspect that would clean things up in a
hearbeat!

Some of you guys are too busy thinking up excuses for the trees to see the
forest.

Caroline

Dans le message de news:GXG5i.2310$3B1.1238@trnddc08,
Caroline a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
"Donald Munro" wrote in message
. com...
wrote:
that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."

So what if Aldag et al had decided not to do what everyone else was
doing ? They'd have lost their contracts at the end of the season
and would have been replaced by neo-pros or amateurs who were
taking. It may seem easy for you to condemn from your ivory tower,
but it was their careers not just a fatty master saturday criterium.


Wow! There's a whole flock just flew over your head and you didn't
see one of them! THAT is my point! And WHO puts the pressure on the
athletes to dope? Why don't all of these "agencies" go after the
ones who are PROMOTING the damned doping? Give amnesty to the riders
and announce that any UCI team caught doping will have all
management/support/training personnel banned for ten years or more...
I suspect that would clean things up in a hearbeat!

Some of you guys are too busy thinking up excuses for the trees to
see the forest.

Caroline

Your forest is really a speck. Last year, according to (my memory and) the
anti-doping prosecutor in Italy, 600 million euros of fake prescription
drugs were sold, for purposes such as cycling doping. So, get the pharma
companies, the distributors, drug stores (yes, the licensed ones), your
neighbor (who could be a dirty drug dealer), etc.

Your nice and moral words don't make a dent in the influential side of the
puzzle.

And I still don't get why you think there is any need for banishment.
What's the logic? If you are in the US, you probably don't know about the
labor issues of preventing a person from earning within his profession. It
takes a lot to expel them, especially at the stock exchanges, even when they
are contemporaneously in prison.

And you don't address the potentially beneficial effects of many of the
drugs, nor the insane basis on which some are allowed, some are prohibited,
and others fall in our out depending on the year and federation. Coffee
anyone?
--
Sandy
--
Il n'est aucune sorte de sensation qui soit plus vive
que celle de la douleur ; ses impressions sont sûres,
elles ne trompent point comme celles du plaisir.
- de Sade.

On May 25, 3:55 pm, "Sandy" wrote:


Coffee
anyone?

Depends. Is it "bugno style" ?

wrote:

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."

I stand by my claim that the watershed for professional cycling was
Tirreno-Adriatico 1994. Everything since then is total bull****.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:39:18 GMT, "Caroline"
wrote:

THAT is my point! And WHO puts the pressure on the athletes to
dope? Why don't all of these "agencies" go after the ones who are PROMOTING
the damned doping? Give amnesty to the riders and announce that any UCI
team caught doping will have all management/support/training personnel
banned for ten years or more... I suspect that would clean things up in a
hearbeat!

You seem to believe that these are all UCI related organizations. WADA
does not really care about cleaning up cycling as an organization and
they aren't tasked with that. They are a third party that primarily
has the ability (as it impacts cycling) to every once in a while grab
a body and toss it into the combine (Kansas style, not UCI).

So when you remove WADA, who do you have left to make the rules? Oh,
pretty much those guys you want to clean up.

Probably the best that outside forces can do is put on enough pressure
to once again split pro from amateur, such as it is (IMO a good
thing). There IS no inside pressure, beond the well documented
self-interests of promoters, teams and sponsors.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Fri, 25 May 2007 21:55:37 +0200, "Sandy" wrote:

Coffee
anyone?

No, thanks. I have a cup. Stop picking on us coffee drinkers. We're
just doing what we have to do to get through the day. We're innocent
victims, practically virgins.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

In article AqF5i.15$WZ6.5@trnddc03,
"Caroline" wrote:

"Sandy" wrote in message
...
Dans le message de news:nYA5i.8476$TU1.2500@trnddc07,
Caroline a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 25, 5:34 am, "Caroline" wrote:

I hate what the directeurs sportif and trainers have done to
cycling with their doping. I have known cyclists who were doped
without their knowing it
because the team honchos came to them with "vitamins" they needed. All
of
the cycling governing agencies are going after the wrong people
when they go
after the athletes.


dumbass,

that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."



So he was too damned stupid to think, "Man, something's gotta be
wrong with my training program..."

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that doping could NOT get to
where it is today through athletes alone. Now, are there lazy people
who want to win the Tour without working? You betcha! And there
always will be. But I don't know of any doping shops where you have
to show your UCI or USCF or whatever federation license in order to
buy their goods. And I do know cyclists who were pushed into it by
their team's trainers and coaches. Once a trainer or a coach is
proven to have promoted or assisted or facilitated doping, that
person should be banned from the sport for life.
Caroline

Are you occasionally beset by a forgiveness and remediation mode, or is
this you more or less always ?


LOL! You're cute. No, I'm a mean bitch who rides a broom and chases down
Cat 5s for drafting on road ref vehicles! '-(

Seriously, I love the sport. I'll be having nine or ten guys spend the
weekend here for the criterium races in the DFW area this weekend. So
SOMETIMES I'm one of the good guys....

But!!!

Name ONE team director, administrator, trainer, physician, whatever, who has
had sanctions placed against him or who has been banned from the sport.
Guys today who think about doping and wonder if it can improve their
performance are extremely late comers to the game! Which is WHY they know
about it. For the years that doping -- drugs, blood boosting, whatever --
has been around, it's always the athletes who are punished. With very few
exceptions, there aren't a whole lot of riders who know how to get into this
stuff without help. At the elite levels, Cat 1s through Pro ranks, my
observation is that they get the stuff through team connecctions. So how
come the axe always falls on the athlete's neck? It is my observation that
you guys at the elite level are treated like a commodity. If "they" can
enhance your performance with doping and you get caught, YOU get punished,
but there are a lot more new riders coming up through the ranks. I don't
think that's the way things should be done. That's all. Feel free to
disagree.

Thanks, but I agree. Now how to prove it?

--
Michael Press

In article ,
Dan Gregory wrote:

Caroline wrote:

Name ONE team director, administrator, trainer, physician, whatever, who
has had sanctions placed against him or who has been banned from the sport.

Manolo Saez

Don't forget Bruno Roussel and Willy Voet from Festina.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On May 25, 12:55 pm, "Sandy" wrote:

Your forest is really a speck. Last year, according to (my memory and) the
anti-doping prosecutor in Italy, 600 million euros of fake prescription
drugs were sold, for purposes such as cycling doping. So, get the pharma
companies, the distributors, drug stores (yes, the licensed ones), your
neighbor (who could be a dirty drug dealer), etc.


Holy crap. 600 million euros of _fake_ drugs? How many
of real drugs? At that rate, cracking down on doping could
ruin the economy! WADA and the narco police must be
stopped! Well, okay, the GDP of Italy is about a trillion
euros, so fake drugs are only 1/1600 of the _total_ economy,
but it still seems high. I hope at least some of those
are being sold to gym rats, bodybuilders, and footy
players, because if they're all going to guys doping for
granfondos, we are truly into excessive Masters Fatties
spending territory.

Another way of looking at it is that Fuentes faxed Haven
and Tyler an invoice for about $54,000. The 600 million
figure suggests about 10,000 Tylers (10,000 people spending
as much as Tyler, that is. To Tyler's credit, if
Fuentes was on the up-and-up, Tyler was getting the real
deal, not 600 million Euros of fake stuff.) That's
rather a lot larger than the Euro peleton. I'll guess it's
still larger than the number of granfondo riders that
are on a serious program.

Ben
Follow the money.