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Yikes! Di2



 
 
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  #91  
Old December 23rd 19, 01:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Yikes! Di2

On Sunday, 22 December 2019 10:41:33 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2019 6:13 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 8:15:04 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/21/2019 9:35 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 2:13:28 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 20 December 2019 13:24:11 UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 5:10:05 AM UTC-8, duane wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/19/2019 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 11:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

Contrary to Frank's ideas, it appears that once you know
this stuff it is petty easy - easier than running cables
and attempting to get the tension correct and having to
readjust it a dozen times to get everything shifting
properly.

Once you know this stuff, it will be pretty easy - until
they come out with the next "improvement." Then you'll have
to learn it all over again. Meanwhile, the software will
have gone through three updates, each with a different user
interface. The next version of the software won't even run
on whatever computer you had; it may require you to move
everything to your cell phone.

And if and when part of the mechanism breaks, the generation
of equipment you own will no longer be available. Newer
generations will not be compatible. You may be able,
theoretically, to hack something into compatibility, but it
will involve hours of internet searching to find the hack.

All of this will be fine with most of the system's buyers,
because they won't want anything sold more than ten years
ago. And after all, why waste all muscular work pushing a
button? Only a retrogrouch would refuse to use voice command
shifting.

"Alexa, check Google Maps to see the gradient of the next
hill, and check Google Weather to see the speed of the
headwind. Check my blood sugar level and refer to my sleep
record from last night, an choose a good gear for me. Alexa?
Got that? Alexa? Are you there?? Alexa??? Hurry!! ****!!!"

And your shifting system responds:

"I'm sorry, I'm not capable of ****ting. I don't have that
bodily function."



Sorta.
And yet we survived CP/M, C-Basic, Lotus macro language. BASICA, C and
beyond, each because they offered some benefit we valued more than the
learning time.

You forgot PDP8s. Who could ever need more than 12 bits...

No one twists elbows to force sales of new equipment and as long as
fixed gear (since 1885!) remains a viable and popular option, you can't
say 'everyone's buying this new system'. Some are, some aren't, which is
fine by me.


+1

Fixed gear is fine as long as the ground is flat. We used fixed gear
around here to train you to climb in large gears. Then that became too old fashioned.

I know lots of guys and gals who ride fixed gear up hills too.

Cheers

I rode up Mt. Hamilton (in T.K. territory) on a fixed gear a few times.
It's murder coming down. That's why I hated fixed gears for riding
around here. You could pick a nice gear that was good for the hills or
at least manageable in the hills, and then you beat your kidneys to death
riding down or took your feet off the pedals and let them spin around
wildly, something I never liked to do. Fixies don't really make much
sense in a hilly environment.

-- Jay Beattie.



A guy at my office switches to a fixie for winter commute. Says it’s
better in the slush and ice. He comes over Mount Royal and I can’t imagine
how he goes down that with no freewheel.

Brakes?

Brakes slow you, but your cranks still go around -- and if you're trying
to make time (or rest) down a hill, you're screwed. I'm not a 200 rpm
prodigy, and with long femurs, I'm not that smooth over 120 rpm. I'd be
flailing down even a modest descent in a 70 inch gear. Mild rollers are
O.K., though, and like Andrew says, fixies do give you good control in snow.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yeah without a freewheel I don’t get it. I’ve heard of wheels with a
freewheel on one side that could be flipped.


Yes, that's right. Been around for 100 years and once again
popular. But in my experience almost no one flips them.
There are the single speed riders and then there are the
fixed gear riders with not much overlap.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


A few years back I rebuilt my MIELE UNO SL as a single speed. It used a freewheel and was not a fixed-gear bike. I was really but pleasantly surprised at how well it climbed the hills around here and how quickly it accelerated. It was a lot of fun.

That bike has since been rebuilt into a dedicated road touring bike with cantilever brakes although I'm going to switch them to V-brakes soon.

Cheers
Ads
  #92  
Old December 23rd 19, 01:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ted Heise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Yikes! Di2

On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 15:19:32 -0800 (PST),
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 2:55:31 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 09:41:19 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2019 6:13 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

[major snip]

Brakes slow you, but your cranks still go around -- and
if you're trying to make time (or rest) down a hill,
you're screwed. I'm not a 200 rpm prodigy, and with long
femurs, I'm not that smooth over 120 rpm. I'd be
flailing down even a modest descent in a 70 inch gear.
Mild rollers are O.K., though, and like Andrew says,
fixies do give you good control in snow.

Yeah without a freewheel I don????????t get it.
I????????ve heard of wheels with a freewheel on one side
that could be flipped.

Yes, that's right. Been around for 100 years and once again
popular. But in my experience almost no one flips them.
There are the single speed riders and then there are the
fixed gear riders with not much overlap.

Certainly matches my experience; my fixed gear bike has a
flip-flop hub, but I've never flipped it.


Just out of curiosity how do you manage a -16% grade?


Ride the hell out of the brake, and pray it doesn't fade. Even
then, I'm usually bouncing up and down and wobbling like crazy.

Most of the time, I avoid them.


It's the only kind of grade he knows how to handle.


Huh? You whooshed me on that.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA
  #93  
Old December 23rd 19, 05:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Yikes! Di2

On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 5:31:32 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 22 December 2019 10:41:33 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2019 6:13 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 8:15:04 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/21/2019 9:35 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 2:13:28 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 20 December 2019 13:24:11 UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 5:10:05 AM UTC-8, duane wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/19/2019 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 11:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

Contrary to Frank's ideas, it appears that once you know
this stuff it is petty easy - easier than running cables
and attempting to get the tension correct and having to
readjust it a dozen times to get everything shifting
properly.

Once you know this stuff, it will be pretty easy - until
they come out with the next "improvement." Then you'll have
to learn it all over again. Meanwhile, the software will
have gone through three updates, each with a different user
interface. The next version of the software won't even run
on whatever computer you had; it may require you to move
everything to your cell phone.

And if and when part of the mechanism breaks, the generation
of equipment you own will no longer be available. Newer
generations will not be compatible. You may be able,
theoretically, to hack something into compatibility, but it
will involve hours of internet searching to find the hack.

All of this will be fine with most of the system's buyers,
because they won't want anything sold more than ten years
ago. And after all, why waste all muscular work pushing a
button? Only a retrogrouch would refuse to use voice command
shifting.

"Alexa, check Google Maps to see the gradient of the next
hill, and check Google Weather to see the speed of the
headwind. Check my blood sugar level and refer to my sleep
record from last night, an choose a good gear for me. Alexa?
Got that? Alexa? Are you there?? Alexa??? Hurry!! ****!!!"

And your shifting system responds:

"I'm sorry, I'm not capable of ****ting. I don't have that
bodily function."



Sorta.
And yet we survived CP/M, C-Basic, Lotus macro language. BASICA, C and
beyond, each because they offered some benefit we valued more than the
learning time.

You forgot PDP8s. Who could ever need more than 12 bits...

No one twists elbows to force sales of new equipment and as long as
fixed gear (since 1885!) remains a viable and popular option, you can't
say 'everyone's buying this new system'. Some are, some aren't, which is
fine by me.


+1

Fixed gear is fine as long as the ground is flat. We used fixed gear
around here to train you to climb in large gears. Then that became too old fashioned.

I know lots of guys and gals who ride fixed gear up hills too.

Cheers

I rode up Mt. Hamilton (in T.K. territory) on a fixed gear a few times.
It's murder coming down. That's why I hated fixed gears for riding
around here. You could pick a nice gear that was good for the hills or
at least manageable in the hills, and then you beat your kidneys to death
riding down or took your feet off the pedals and let them spin around
wildly, something I never liked to do. Fixies don't really make much
sense in a hilly environment.

-- Jay Beattie.



A guy at my office switches to a fixie for winter commute. Says it’s
better in the slush and ice. He comes over Mount Royal and I can’t imagine
how he goes down that with no freewheel.

Brakes?

Brakes slow you, but your cranks still go around -- and if you're trying
to make time (or rest) down a hill, you're screwed. I'm not a 200 rpm
prodigy, and with long femurs, I'm not that smooth over 120 rpm. I'd be
flailing down even a modest descent in a 70 inch gear. Mild rollers are
O.K., though, and like Andrew says, fixies do give you good control in snow.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yeah without a freewheel I don’t get it. I’ve heard of wheels with a
freewheel on one side that could be flipped.


Yes, that's right. Been around for 100 years and once again
popular. But in my experience almost no one flips them.
There are the single speed riders and then there are the
fixed gear riders with not much overlap.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


A few years back I rebuilt my MIELE UNO SL as a single speed. It used a freewheel and was not a fixed-gear bike. I was really but pleasantly surprised at how well it climbed the hills around here and how quickly it accelerated. It was a lot of fun.

That bike has since been rebuilt into a dedicated road touring bike with cantilever brakes although I'm going to switch them to V-brakes soon.

Cheers


Remember that there are V-brakes that fit MTB's and others that fit road bikes with drop bars. You have to get the correct type and you will be pleased with the result.
  #94  
Old December 23rd 19, 05:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Yikes! Di2

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 5:27:28 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 15:19:32 -0800 (PST),
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 2:55:31 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 09:41:19 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2019 6:13 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

[major snip]

Brakes slow you, but your cranks still go around -- and
if you're trying to make time (or rest) down a hill,
you're screwed. I'm not a 200 rpm prodigy, and with long
femurs, I'm not that smooth over 120 rpm. I'd be
flailing down even a modest descent in a 70 inch gear.
Mild rollers are O.K., though, and like Andrew says,
fixies do give you good control in snow.

Yeah without a freewheel I don????????t get it.
I????????ve heard of wheels with a freewheel on one side
that could be flipped.

Yes, that's right. Been around for 100 years and once again
popular. But in my experience almost no one flips them.
There are the single speed riders and then there are the
fixed gear riders with not much overlap.

Certainly matches my experience; my fixed gear bike has a
flip-flop hub, but I've never flipped it.

Just out of curiosity how do you manage a -16% grade?


Ride the hell out of the brake, and pray it doesn't fade. Even
then, I'm usually bouncing up and down and wobbling like crazy.

Most of the time, I avoid them.


It's the only kind of grade he knows how to handle.


Huh? You whooshed me on that.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA


Well, you left the opening. Merry Christmas.
  #95  
Old December 23rd 19, 07:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Yikes! Di2

On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 7:37:06 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was talking to the man in the bike shop yesterday about how to wire up the Di2. He said to being in everything and let him look at it so I did.

He said that the lever only used a single connector and that was prone to some sort of troubles that I don't think he was knowledgeable about. That all of the new levers had three connectors each.

As an engineer none of that makes sense to me but I'll believe him. This set was only $600 and that's less than the cost of the levers alone on eBay..

Does anyone know what the problems with the levers is and how a couple of switches need "upgraded" software that won't work in these levers?


OK, concerning the Di2 system: The stem unit only requires 3 wires if externally wired. It uses 5 wires if internal simply because the wiring goes directly to each derailleur and the battery without an under-BB interface. So the "bottom" three connectors in the stem unit are all cross connected and it doesn't matter which one you plug into.

The Stem unit and the derailleurs are all powered by the battery on the wires.

Riding on top of the power is an encoded signal that each derailleur and the stem unit can read (or write).

So proper wiring is:

A. The two wires on the top of the stem unit go between the left and right levers. This wiring has to be correct but it you get it backwards you just have to unplug the connectors and put them in correct.

2. With external wiring you run a single wire down to the under-BB connector.
  #96  
Old December 23rd 19, 08:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Yikes! Di2

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 11:04:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 7:37:06 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was talking to the man in the bike shop yesterday about how to wire up the Di2. He said to being in everything and let him look at it so I did.

He said that the lever only used a single connector and that was prone to some sort of troubles that I don't think he was knowledgeable about. That all of the new levers had three connectors each.

As an engineer none of that makes sense to me but I'll believe him. This set was only $600 and that's less than the cost of the levers alone on eBay.

Does anyone know what the problems with the levers is and how a couple of switches need "upgraded" software that won't work in these levers?


OK, concerning the Di2 system: The stem unit only requires 3 wires if externally wired. It uses 5 wires if internal simply because the wiring goes directly to each derailleur and the battery without an under-BB interface. So the "bottom" three connectors in the stem unit are all cross connected and it doesn't matter which one you plug into.

The Stem unit and the derailleurs are all powered by the battery on the wires.

Riding on top of the power is an encoded signal that each derailleur and the stem unit can read (or write).

So proper wiring is:

A. The two wires on the top of the stem unit go between the left and right levers. This wiring has to be correct but it you get it backwards you just have to unplug the connectors and put them in correct.

2. With external wiring you run a single wire down to the under-BB connector.

3. You also run a connector from there to the battery probably using a "long" battery mount which mounts under the water bottle holders. The battery itself plugs into this and has a "snap" connector to lock it in place.

4. You run a wire to each derailleur. The under BB connector is constructed in a manner that allows you to wrap any excess wire around and lock it cleanly in place.

Unlike the other wireless systems from FSA or SRAM, you only have a single battery and it lasts a great deal longer since RF control uses a lot of energy. Though of course you have to use wire covers and zip-ties to make sure nothing is hanging out in the wind.

So while Di2 seems to be complicated it is actually more simple than cable actuated brakes and derailleurs and FAR more simple to adjust and once adjusted doesn't suffer from cable stretch.

I am still not a fan of either disk brakes or Di2 because I don't like the idea of having to maintain a battery charge and have a bicycle especially built for the far different forces on a bike from disk brakes. This additional construction adds about a lb in total to the weight of a frame and regardless of what some people claim this isn't going to go away.

I just did 10 miles in heavy rain a couple of weeks ago and the only part that rusted was something to do with a supposedly stainless steel chain. Maybe the pins are normal steel.

A disk bike would have to have the disks dried off IMMEDIATELY or they would get surface rust that has a VERY poor coefficient of friction so you'd have to use the brake several times to clean this off before your disk brake worked OK. Granted I had to be careful to engage my rim brake a full wheel revolution sooner than would be the case were conditions dry but I am not a racer trying to be 0.001 seconds faster than someone else.


I ride discs in the rain all the time, and have never once wiped them dry. I don't get rust, but even if I did, the pads would abrade it off without me even knowing it. This is a non-issue.

-- Jay Beattie.








  #97  
Old December 23rd 19, 08:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Yikes! Di2

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 11:04:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

I just did 10 miles in heavy rain a couple of weeks ago and
the only part that rusted was something to do with a supposedly
stainless steel chain. Maybe the pins are normal steel.


Not all stainless chains are created equal.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/9512/are-there-any-disadvantages-to-running-a-stainless-steel-bike-chain
As far as I know there are no bicycle chains that are
completely stainless steel. You will note on the Connex
Wipperman stainless steel chains that only the inner
links are stainless steel, so you won't get complete
rust or corrosion resistance by using them. You will
still need to lubricate and clean the chain to avoid
corrosion and increase the chain's life.

and:

KMC Stainless Steel (SS) chain claims to be all-SS rather
than partial as the Wipperman.
I have been running a KMC Stainless chain for 3.5 years
and it is indistinguishable performance-wise from carbon
steel chains. However it is clean and shiny, stays that
way and, so far, has been all joy and happiness. The
cosmetic value of "clean and shiny" is there as it lends
an appearance of quality and newness.

I couldn't find where KMC claimed that their S10 INOX chains are all
stainless. This can possibly be tested with a small magnet if the
type of stainless steel can be found. Oddly, the KMC web pile
suggests stainless steel chains only for "comfort" bikes.
http://kmcchain.us/chain/s10/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #98  
Old December 23rd 19, 09:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Yikes! Di2

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:04:34 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 7:37:06 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was talking to the man in the bike shop yesterday about how to wire up the Di2. He said to being in everything and let him look at it so I did.

He said that the lever only used a single connector and that was prone to some sort of troubles that I don't think he was knowledgeable about. That all of the new levers had three connectors each.

As an engineer none of that makes sense to me but I'll believe him. This set was only $600 and that's less than the cost of the levers alone on eBay.

Does anyone know what the problems with the levers is and how a couple of switches need "upgraded" software that won't work in these levers?


OK, concerning the Di2 system: The stem unit only requires 3 wires if externally wired. It uses 5 wires if internal simply because the wiring goes directly to each derailleur and the battery without an under-BB interface. So the "bottom" three connectors in the stem unit are all cross connected and it doesn't matter which one you plug into.

The Stem unit and the derailleurs are all powered by the battery on the wires.

Riding on top of the power is an encoded signal that each derailleur and the stem unit can read (or write).

So proper wiring is:

A. The two wires on the top of the stem unit go between the left and right levers. This wiring has to be correct but it you get it backwards you just have to unplug the connectors and put them in correct.


Like I already said it doesn't matter where you connect the lever cable to the stem unit. Why do I think that because I replaced the under the stem junction box with three E port connections with one that fits into the handlebar end which has only two E port connections:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...or-Di2-p53775/
Work in progress:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZLym32cVAgrFG8PZ8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rdzkCcDcGBjk3Y9W6
Result:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uXSom69khvFmQ6uDA
I had to you a splitter to make the connection to the bottom bracket connection box:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...ra-Di2-p51473/
I didn't pay any attention which cable put in which E port.
The switches in the shifters have some intelligents in them (firmware) that can be updated.


2. With external wiring you run a single wire down to the under-BB connector.


Also with internal wiring. The under the bottom bracket only has a different shape.
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...or-Di2-p29536/


3. You also run a connector from there to the battery probably using a "long" battery mount which mounts under the water bottle holders. The battery itself plugs into this and has a "snap" connector to lock it in place.

4. You run a wire to each derailleur. The under BB connector is constructed in a manner that allows you to wrap any excess wire around and lock it cleanly in place.


External wiring is something from the past and ugly. Frame makers have adapted their frames to internal routing for a while now.


Unlike the other wireless systems from FSA or SRAM, you only have a single battery and it lasts a great deal longer since RF control uses a lot of energy. Though of course you have to use wire covers and zip-ties to make sure nothing is hanging out in the wind.


Se above.


So while Di2 seems to be complicated it is actually more simple than cable actuated brakes and derailleurs and FAR more simple to adjust and once adjusted doesn't suffer from cable stretch.


Di2 is dead simple.

I am still not a fan of either disk brakes or Di2 because I don't like the idea of having to maintain a battery charge and have a bicycle especially built for the far different forces on a bike from disk brakes. This additional construction adds about a lb in total to the weight of a frame and regardless of what some people claim this isn't going to go away.


If I recall correctly Dura Ace Di2 gruppo is lighter that Dura Ace mechanical. Disk is something else.



I just did 10 miles in heavy rain a couple of weeks ago and the only part that rusted was something to do with a supposedly stainless steel chain. Maybe the pins are normal steel.


A SS chain is a big rip off. Only the outer plates are SS not the pins because these have te be hardened.


A disk bike would have to have the disks dried off IMMEDIATELY or they would get surface rust that has a VERY poor coefficient of friction so you'd have to use the brake several times to clean this off before your disk brake worked OK. Granted I had to be careful to engage my rim brake a full wheel revolution sooner than would be the case were conditions dry but I am not a racer trying to be 0.001 seconds faster than someone else.


?? rotors are stainless steel. I don't know about the 'Chinese' stuff.


Hopefully this will be of some use to those wondering about how Di2 works and how to install it.


All is well documented Tom.

Lou

  #99  
Old December 23rd 19, 10:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Yikes! Di2

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:31:11 PM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 11:04:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

KMC Stainless Steel (SS) chain claims to be all-SS rather
than partial as the Wipperman.
I have been running a KMC Stainless chain for 3.5 years
and it is indistinguishable performance-wise from carbon
steel chains. However it is clean and shiny, stays that
way and, so far, has been all joy and happiness. The
cosmetic value of "clean and shiny" is there as it lends
an appearance of quality and newness.

I couldn't find where KMC claimed that their S10 INOX chains are all
stainless. This can possibly be tested with a small magnet if the
type of stainless steel can be found. Oddly, the KMC web pile
suggests stainless steel chains only for "comfort" bikes.
http://kmcchain.us/chain/s10/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Another data point. I know a few high mileage cyclists who're trying the KMC stainless chain, which is made for touring bikes and commuters. None of those who have reported so far got enough greater mileage over their established norm to justify the greater cost. I decided not to go for the SS X1 (since renumbered) because I saw no advantage over my usual KMC X8-93 run exclusively on the factory lube for its entire life, inside an all-enclosing Hebie Chainglider. I run the chain with zero added lube, zero service until about 0.5% wear, then throw it off to preserve my chainring and sprocket. The KMC chain comes out of the Chainglider bright, shiny and new-looking and you have to measure carefully to determine the wear.

Andre Jute
Economist. The chain is the cheapest component on my bike.
  #100  
Old December 24th 19, 04:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Yikes! Di2

Tom Kunich writes:

On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 1:37:23 PM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
Chalo writes:

jbeattie wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/wrk5fvk
20 clams. I'm not sure if the right has a friction option.

I've gotten those for 8 and 9 speed bikes. Microshift makes some too,
costlier but not obviously better. None of the new crop has a
friction option, which is vexing when you could otherwise have
anything from 7 to 11 gears on the same hub spacing.

(Friction shifting 10 or 11 sounds awful if you know which gear you
want. Maybe not so bad if you don't mind some randomness.)

Now that almost all frames come with easy-to-replace,
even-easier-to-bend derailleur hangers, having a manual override for
indexing seems more important than it was back when we had it. Also,
Shimano no longer want to commit to a single cable pull ratio for all
their derailleurs (apparently for the sole purpose of making some
parts of their product line incompatible with others). That's not
really a problem for friction shifting.


The natural development of shift-by-wire will be that the cable pull
ratio will not even be the same for a single derailleur. Each gear
change will have its own requirement for cable pull. Once the
derailleurs have CANBus connectors, they'll be able to tell the shifters
what they need ...


That isn't the way it works.

The stem unit simply orders a shift up or down. In each derailleur
there is a micro-processor that could theoretically either set the
spacing or even detect a misalignment and correct for it. This would
be relatively easy with a simple audio or vibrational hookup.


I see. Thanks for that.

The "gear centering" adjustment is nothing more than the starting
position of the rear derailleur.

But since you want the lowest possible energy drain on the battery the
easiest method is to use equal-distance spacing.


It's not clear to me that equal spacing will always result in lowest
battery drain.
 




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