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#1
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
I am watching the redux on Versus and just keeping ticking off the
names of the "heads of state" that were later found positive for doping in one form or another. It boils down to one question; IS it possible for an undoped rider to beat doped riders? Anyone knowing anything knows it isn't. Not at this level. The for those that want to believe that Lance is clean comes forth a level of rationalizing that usually includes that the peloton is clean and the UCI 'sees and knows all'. So my question is, is there anyone out there (except citizens of Salt Lake City) that believes Lance is clean and the peleton is doped? Or more likely, everyone's doping but some (better drugs, doctors and training) are better at it. |
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#2
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
Versus just showed stage 15 of 2003
1st - Armstrong 2nd - Mayo - doper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iban_Mayo 3rd - Ullrich - doper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ullrich 5th - Moreau - doper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Moreau Need anyone go on? Look at this ****ing list of caught cycling dopers. (CAUGHT that is) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ses_in_cycling |
#3
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
"Anton Berlin" wrote in message ... I am watching the redux on Versus and just keeping ticking off the names of the "heads of state" that were later found positive for doping in one form or another. It boils down to one question; IS it possible for an undoped rider to beat doped riders? Sure... Average troll, but I'll post this just in time again for the TDF... There are basically three slices to Lance's pie, as to why Lance was better then the rest of the pack including those EPO heads. Slice one - Lance having the right genes as a superb athlete and recovery skills, as noted with his ability to eliminate lactic acid, or not to build it as fast as others. Also his loss of weight coming back and climbing with much less weight while riding as strong as before cancer. Slice two - His superb training under Chris Carmichael, but Lance gets the credit for doing the work. Slice three - Technology that no one else had access to with Nike and Trek. Lance being also a fanatic for innovation and staying on the bleeding edge. In Lances case, Technology was a big factor for years. All there of these add up to much more time and staying in the game, for years, much more so then EPO doped riders could last. No doped EPO rider could last 7 years at the highest level. He would be dead before ever winning 7 tours, or caught. If Lance doped, then someone needs to explain how he never was caught, since he was the most tested rider ever in history, and you can bet they were gunning for him always. Even the French tried to get him with their old lab urine samples when they couldn't get him with current tests during all those tours. Read the Science of Lance and think about it... These are some notes from the Science of Lance , it has some excellent data points. Lance team looked at every aspect of cycling to make their team better. They made the bikes as light, strong and as safe as they could. They looked at not only the riders and the team as a whole but all the nuts and bolts, frames, helmets, even the tires and the jerseys are specially made. The tires are aged six years just for Lance, and the jerseys are made of special materials to shave off resistance, drag. Lances F1 team represents the best minds from technology, sports physiology, statistical analysis and aerodynamics. Calculations take into considerations the grade of the climb, the density of the air, the weight of the rider and the rolling resistance of the wheels. Lance takes an active role in examining every detail. Everything is tested in wind tunnel from frames, body position, helmets, clothes, even the shoes. 2\3 of the drag comes off the body, 1\3 comes off the bike. Clothes are lighter somewhere on the average of 150 grams, and with materials used to cut drag, claims are made that minutes could be saved on a stage and as much as five minutes on the final GC. Lances training season adds up to as many miles as riding nearly halfway around the globe. Lance's coach Johan is one of the smartest tacticians that ever rode the tour and he speaks six languages, which allows him to coach a multi national team like Discovery, even though really it's an American team. According to Lance Johan has almost never been wrong about his judgments of riders when they will crack in a tour stage, and can even predict it to the day. At 14 years old, Lance was already better then all the top tri-athletes. Lance was the youngest world road champion ever at the age of 21. Lances heart can pump 9 gallons of blood per minute at maximum heart rate, and that heart rate can reach an above average speed of 200 beats per minute. The average heart can only pump 5 gallons per minute. This makes Lances heart a third more effective then an average mans heart. He was national champion and world champion before cancer. After Cancer he lost 20 pounds so his power to weight ratio went up by 10 percent, which is huge on the climbs. Lance choose a cancer treatment that spared his lungs. Lance VO2 max test was some of highest numbers for cyclists tested at the labs, and his lungs extract far more oxygen then the average person. An impressive 83 milliliters of oxygen for every kilogram of body weight. He generates 500 watts of power at peak performance. An average healthy 20 year old extracts a mere 45 milliliters of oxygen and generates 250 watts of power. Lances lungs are twice as efficient as the average racer. Lance is a physiological freak since for reasons unknown to science, Lances muscles built up much less lactic acid then the average rider and his body eliminates that lactic acid much more efficiently. When he exceeds his aerobic capacity on like a sprint to the finish Lance maintains full power longer then his rivals. The toughest battles take place where the air is thinnest so to increase his oxygen carrying capacity Lance trains and recovers at attitude. Lance doesn't appear to have a drop in his oxygen uptake ability as he climbs up at attitude higher and higher. Lance's science bears out that all his genetic advantages combined with the F1 team adds up to much more time then cheating by skirting controls, substances and such. Lance is one of the most drug tested athletes on the planet and he has never failed a test. Lances climbing frames weight about as much as a paperback book and are extremely stiff. I remember in the video called A Sunday in Hell when Merckx was always f iddling with his bike constantly adjusting the seat or the bars. Lance is also known to always be looking for a millimeter of change to make a difference. Bikes are tested both in real and virtual wind tunnels. With the help of AMD computers, frames and parts could be tested in virtual wind tunnels. Colors are used to simulate high and low pressure areas which allow for changes to be made and then finally tested in a real wind tunnel. Lance likes lightness and stiffness because this translates into more pedal power being transferred to the road. Lances tires are aged in a private cellar for six years before they are really for the Tour. Lances team time trail was the fastest in history averaging 37 mph. Lances climbing bike was 100 grams lighter then previously giving Lance a new advantage. Lance has changed the sport to bring more technology and more precise training to the tour and has set the benchmark for preparation to execution, and every possible related aspect of racing from technology, training and equipment to make a champion. Giro, Trek, came together for the first time to make Lance and team discovery go even faster. Lance is very good at cultivating information and getting it from different sources. The best companies in the cycling business came together and pulled their resources for Lance and it has never been done before. The main goal was to work together to make Lance faster in the time trial. Allied Aerospace in San Diego was used for wind tunnels tests. The same technology for aircraft was applied to the bikes. Technology collected over the last few years was brought to the whole team. Ekimov time trail position was actually always quite good and needed little adjustments after all these years. Every year Trek has looked at ways to improve Lances equipment and bikes. This year's TT bar for Lance was half as light as last year's bar. The design of the bar reminds me of a tiny stealth aircraft, black and all. Lances TT bike is different then team TT bikes because it is designed to go in a straight line very quickly without any other bikes near it. Team TT bikes were designed differently with more agility. The Madon SL was created for the best climbers and is 100 grams lighter then TT bike. Knowing you bike is 100 grams lighter is also a psychological difference in the riders frame of mind. Lance gives the thumbs up or down for products and Giro and Trek often rebuild products to meet Lances expectations. Chris Carmichael is Lances manager, and his motivator. Chris job is to add the human touch to the F1 team. Chris tracks Lances training progress in Colorado. Chris tested Lances VO2 level at 80 which is very high, one of the highest tests recorded for a cyclist. Also Lance is tested for lactate threshold test at Colorado Springs. This measures the ability to work through the muscle burn and Lances threshold is very high. At Chris's camp he says to imagine the road is on fire like hot coals. Instead of pulling up from the down stroke, imagine the bottom of the pedal stroke is hot, and you want to get your foot away from there as quick as possible. Pulling back over the top instead of pulling up. Lance has made a lot of improvements to the pedal strokes. Lance has made a 10 percent improvement in his pedal stoke from 1992 to 1999. His high cadence on the climbs is one, most notably. Nike has worked with Lance for four years. Lance cycling clothes for 2005 is the best ever, a hodgepodge of specially designed materials to reduce drag and is better then any riders in the tour. Nike offered to trim 200 grams off of Lances TT suit which they say would amount to 45 seconds quicker in the TT. The swift suit was revealed at the Tour this year. Four different fabrics were engineered and added to reduce the drag in the exact spots Lance needed it. The dimples on a golf ball which are used to add aerodynamics were also applied to the jerseys to reduce drag in just the right places. Seams were removed to reduce drag and with the all the high and low pressure zones adjusted with the right fabrics savings of 2 kilometers per hour was added. The Giro helmet is no longer a two piece shell but only one molded piece, the fastest helmet in the world. The time savings with this new helmet over the old helmet was 23 seconds. The gloves were also designed similar to the swift suit for aerodynamics. The glove is a gauntlet fit into the suit so as to be seamless. The aerodynamics of Nike shoes for Lance are a special secret, but it has an extremely hard bottom plate, carbon fiber. Lance has always told Nike and Trek to push every year for better improvements as long as it is legal within the rules. According to the F1 team, the tunnel tests which brings together all the best technology from Giro, Trek, etc. added up to three or four minutes a stage. This allows a rider like Lance in his late years to save his energy for the end of the tour, which was evident in his TT victory. Lance won the tour by a wide margin and was still fresh which is quite remarkable. Lance brought honor and recognition to the sport as well as technology, training and redefined team racing. He sure did a hell of a lot for the sport here in America, and I think historians will be kind to him. |
#4
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
Precisely the rationalizing neccesary.
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#5
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
"GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote in message
... Lance brought honor and recognition to the sport as well as technology, training and redefined team racing. He sure did a hell of a lot for the sport here in America, and I think historians will be kind to him. How dare you not believe someone who wants to bring Lance down? |
#6
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
A very interesting point of view. I hung out with real hardcore
cycling fans in Stavelot Belgium during the Liege-Bastogne-Liege race and to a person they think the return is "good for the peloton" They also seem to think the a 37 year old man is not going to be able to sustain for a TDF win. These folks know cycling pretty well and it is somewhat accepted that their heroes might have "help". Have they got Bob Roll cleaned up and presentable? |
#7
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
On Jun 28, 6:51*pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:
Slice two - His superb training under Chris Carmichael, but Lance gets the credit for doing the work. Verbose dumbass - You don't really think that Carmichael is his coach, do you? -rj |
#8
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Anton Berlin
wrote: Versus just showed stage 15 of 2003 1st - Armstrong 2nd - Mayo - doper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iban_Mayo 3rd - Ullrich - doper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ullrich 5th - Moreau - doper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Moreau Need anyone go on? Look at this ****ing list of caught cycling dopers. (CAUGHT that is) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ses_in_cycling It's quite possible that this statement made by Lance is true. "I never used illegal doping products". You can castigate someone who finds ways to improve performance, using nutrients, supplements, even legal pharmaceuticals. You can only find fault if they break the existent rules. Strategy, tactics, shaving weight from the equipment, weighing every ounce of food to maximize body weight and reduce body fat, maximizing the hydration and food taken in on the ride are all legal ways to get an edge. Training at altitude, riding the mountain stages ahead of time, sleeping in oxygen tents - all currently permitted. Basically, as long as the rules existing at the time are not broken, you can do it. At one time the Tour was thinking about making oxygen tents illegal. But that only takes effect once the rule is in place. Prior to the rule it's OK. After the rule it's cheating. Some like to say getting an advantage is cheating - it's not. If you have the money you can commission scientists to find every possible legal advantage. Some teams can afford this, some may not. It's entirely possible that a rider =not= using illegal doping products, but using every other possible advantage could win over those taking conventional illegal doping products. |
#9
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:14:00 -0400, wrote:
You can castigate someone who finds ways to improve performance, using nutrients, supplements, even legal pharmaceuticals Correction: You can -not- castigate someone who finds ways to improve performance, using nutrients, supplements, even legal pharmaceuticals... |
#10
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Is Lance Armstrong a great doper or the greatest doper ever?
Anton Berlin wrote:
Precisely the rationalizing neccesary. All he's said is that he doesn't believe doping gave LA a unique advantage. You know all the guys he was racing against were doping, what basis do you have for believing Armstrong's dope was better than, say, Ullrich's? |
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