Bike Share graveyard

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:54:45 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/6/2017 2:29 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:03:03 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 17:29, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:41:22 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 16:23, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:20 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 12:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.


On trails my safety is under _my_ control. On busy roads my safety is
under the control of drivers in various states of distraction,
inebriation and more recently "stonedness".

Now that was simple, wasn't it?

If safety on trails under the control of the rider and you brag that
you ride on one trail that has sent many people to the hospital then
what are you saying here? That you ride on a trail where many people
can't control themselves? That many MTB riders can't or won't control
themselves?


They take excessive risks. "Doctor, I can swear 110% that this rock
wasn't in the trail last week".


If "they take excessive risks" then why do you claim that the "trail
has sent many people to the hospital"?

Or is it that a little exaggeration makes for a much more exciting
narration?


Looks like you have been away from America for too long to remember
common expressions.


You mean like "The trail has sent many people to the hospital".
Well, yes I must admit that I am not familiar with that phrase.

Perhaps I an a bit forgetful so kindly explain how an inanimate piece
of real estate that is just there "sends people to the hospital"?

Do you mean that it somehow comes to life and rears up and bites
people like a snake? Or Does it some crush them like an elephant
stamped on them? Or maybe pieces of it just break off and fall down
steep hills and bury people?

I have heard of a volcano "erupting" and burying people and even
causing airplanes to nearly fall out of the sky but the term "erupt"
does convey a sense of motion. Perhaps your "trail that sends people
to the hospital" erupts?

Or is this just another example of some clumsy fellow that falls down
and then rather then admit that "Yes, I stumbled", tries to blame it
on an inanimate rock? "See! See! If that rock hadn't been there I'd
never have tripped!"

From what I can tell, mountain biking crashes are much different from a
clumsy guy stumbling. Many, perhaps most, mountain bikers consider
testing their skill to be part of the ride. So they don't take the level
trail; they detour into the side trail that zooms down the ridge. They
bounce along the baby head rocks, they ride the dropoffs and are proud
when they stick the landing. They wheelie or jump over the logs.

If you want a pedestrian equivalent, I suppose it would be parkour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX7QNWEGcNI

... and a guy saying "Being a pedestrian in a city is really dangerous."

Hmmm... I wonder.

Have you ever been an environment where you got off and pushed the
bike? I have. We could call that option One, the most cautious level.
From that point the danger increases with every increase in daring.
And daring is the prerogative of the rider and not the trail (or the
bicycle).

My point was if you elect attempt to "leap tall buildings with a
single bound", you shouldn't, as Joerg seems to do, blame the
building when you fail.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 11/25/2017 4:16 PM, wrote:
recycling en mass is industrial practice for costs. needs a buyer, short shipping.

what's the Chinese cost stripping one bicycle ? or is this necessary with a 'sorter' post crush ?


FWIW, the Chinese have recently changed their recycling rules, causing
significant changes in US metal recycling, and dropping what recyclers
will pay for metal of most sorts. My local small scale recycler has quit
paying for motors for instance, because they get no more for them than
they do iron. Brass is down, Stainless is down. They have actually
started charging to take iron.

On 12/6/2017 8:39 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 11/25/2017 4:16 PM, wrote:
recycling en mass is industrial practice for costs. needs
a buyer, short shipping.

what's the Chinese cost stripping one bicycle ? or is this
necessary with a 'sorter' post crush ?


FWIW, the Chinese have recently changed their recycling
rules, causing significant changes in US metal recycling,
and dropping what recyclers will pay for metal of most
sorts. My local small scale recycler has quit paying for
motors for instance, because they get no more for them than
they do iron. Brass is down, Stainless is down. They have
actually started charging to take iron.

Not only.
We have a customer in the cardboard recycling business who
reports that when the chinese government announced their new
recycled materials stratagem last month, his rate dropped
20%. Doesn't change his labor, fuel or maintenance costs but
his revenues tanked.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/6/2017 6:48 PM, John B. wrote:

Have you ever been an environment where you got off and pushed the
bike? I have. We could call that option One, the most cautious level.
From that point the danger increases with every increase in daring.
And daring is the prerogative of the rider and not the trail (or the
bicycle).

I've definitely dismounted and pushed the mountain bike on occasion.
Heck, on one ride a year or two ago, I decided to ignore the "Bridge
Out" sign and see if I could get through with my bike.

For context: I've been over many bridges that were "out" for cars but
passable for bikes. I've even shouldered my bike and carried it across
ancient bridges whose deck was gone, walking on the bare beams.

But this instance a couple years ago was different. The bridge was
totally out, as in gone. But I didn't want to do the long backtrack. So
I used my bike as a prop to clamber down about 8 feet of super-steep (as
in, at the limit of the soil's angle of repose) dirt, jump across a
little creek, then use the bike as a prop to make it up the other side.
The scheme was this: Plant the bike; squeeze the brakes; use the bike
for support as I reached the next stable foothold; then lift the bike
and plant it again.

But these days, I also dismount for much milder obstacles that, 20 years
ago, I would have challenged myself to "clean," as they say in the
observed trials world.

My point was if you elect attempt to "leap tall buildings with a
single bound", you shouldn't, as Joerg seems to do, blame the
building when you fail.

Joerg's world view is unique. That's as charitable as I can be.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:44:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/6/2017 8:39 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 11/25/2017 4:16 PM, wrote:
recycling en mass is industrial practice for costs. needs
a buyer, short shipping.

what's the Chinese cost stripping one bicycle ? or is this
necessary with a 'sorter' post crush ?


FWIW, the Chinese have recently changed their recycling
rules, causing significant changes in US metal recycling,
and dropping what recyclers will pay for metal of most
sorts. My local small scale recycler has quit paying for
motors for instance, because they get no more for them than
they do iron. Brass is down, Stainless is down. They have
actually started charging to take iron.

Not only.
We have a customer in the cardboard recycling business who
reports that when the chinese government announced their new
recycled materials stratagem last month, his rate dropped
20%. Doesn't change his labor, fuel or maintenance costs but
his revenues tanked.

But don't worry. Fearless Leader and his mob has reduced taxes so
everything will be all right :-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:14:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/6/2017 6:48 PM, John B. wrote:

Have you ever been an environment where you got off and pushed the
bike? I have. We could call that option One, the most cautious level.
From that point the danger increases with every increase in daring.
And daring is the prerogative of the rider and not the trail (or the
bicycle).

I've definitely dismounted and pushed the mountain bike on occasion.
Heck, on one ride a year or two ago, I decided to ignore the "Bridge
Out" sign and see if I could get through with my bike.

For context: I've been over many bridges that were "out" for cars but
passable for bikes. I've even shouldered my bike and carried it across
ancient bridges whose deck was gone, walking on the bare beams.

But this instance a couple years ago was different. The bridge was
totally out, as in gone. But I didn't want to do the long backtrack. So
I used my bike as a prop to clamber down about 8 feet of super-steep (as
in, at the limit of the soil's angle of repose) dirt, jump across a
little creek, then use the bike as a prop to make it up the other side.
The scheme was this: Plant the bike; squeeze the brakes; use the bike
for support as I reached the next stable foothold; then lift the bike
and plant it again.

But these days, I also dismount for much milder obstacles that, 20 years
ago, I would have challenged myself to "clean," as they say in the
observed trials world.


I even got off the other day and pushed... down a sidewalk. It was
rush hour and traffic was horrendous so I thought "I'll just ride on
the sidewalk", except that the sidewalk was literally wall to wall
people rushing this way and that way. So I got off and walked for a
block or so pushing the bike until I reached my turn off.
(But of course I kept my helmet on so I was safe as safe could be :-)

My point was if you elect attempt to "leap tall buildings with a
single bound", you shouldn't, as Joerg seems to do, blame the
building when you fail.

Joerg's world view is unique. That's as charitable as I can be.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/6/2017 11:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:44:46 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/6/2017 8:39 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 11/25/2017 4:16 PM, wrote:
recycling en mass is industrial practice for costs. needs
a buyer, short shipping.

what's the Chinese cost stripping one bicycle ? or is this
necessary with a 'sorter' post crush ?


FWIW, the Chinese have recently changed their recycling
rules, causing significant changes in US metal recycling,
and dropping what recyclers will pay for metal of most
sorts. My local small scale recycler has quit paying for
motors for instance, because they get no more for them than
they do iron. Brass is down, Stainless is down. They have
actually started charging to take iron.

Not only.
We have a customer in the cardboard recycling business who
reports that when the chinese government announced their new
recycled materials stratagem last month, his rate dropped
20%. Doesn't change his labor, fuel or maintenance costs but
his revenues tanked.

But don't worry. Fearless Leader and his mob has reduced taxes so
everything will be all right :-(


Xi reduced taxes? Hardly.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2017-12-06 12:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 1:40:47 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-05 09:42, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 10:06:27 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 18:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 7:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 16:23, John B. wrote:

Damn! You are making the public highways look better and
better.


They will never be better unless you remove the motor
vehicles from there. Or add segregated bikes paths like
they did he

https://goo.gl/maps/NBzpVUA58tq

That's not a segregated bike path. That's a shoulder on a
road. In most states it's not even considered part of the
roadway. I know lots of cyclists never leave the shoulder,
but that can bring its own problems, since legal protections
often exist only for those operating on the roadway.


Now go look for your glasses, put them on and take a peek again
but this time farther to the right. In case you still don't see
it I have zoomed it in for you here (but then please see an
optometrist before operating any vehicle):

https://goo.gl/maps/nreBX5Qc7eH2

Well, perhaps you should have posted that first, no?


No. Look at the first link. It is clearly visible and I posted it
to show how well the separation between road and bike path is done.
Also to show that this has bike lanes plus bike path, like other
roads in Folsom do. If you didn't see that bike path I suggest to
at least not operate a motor vehicle unless your vision has been
checked out.

It's not really that clear. The separate path is in the shadow, ...


When mentioned as separate bike path in my text and still not seeing it
that should be of concern.


... and
the first thing that the viewer sees is the wide curb lane.


"But I didn't see it" is a common excuse after accidents. Got to pay
attention.


... BTW, it
just ends, right? And then it turns into an ordinary bike lane on
Natoma.


Not anymore. Google Maps is quite outdated in many areas and is often
years behind. There is a seamless bike path all the way into Folsom
Downtown. It later veers off the road and goes through fields, very
nicely built.

Folsom is rather fast in expanding their cycling infrastructure. From El
Dorado Hills several cycling facilities to pick from seamlessly go all
the way through into the core of Folsom, and then on from there.

The reward for them is that people like me leave a chunk of their
discretionary money in Folsom.


Also, it looks like the major shopping areas are accessible in the
usual ways -- on roads. I'm not seeing any separated paths around the
central mall-shopping area like the WalMart Supercenter. Riley has a
bike lane. Bidwell has nothing.

Although I'd have no problem with that nice wide lane.


In the inner city there are roads but you can cycle on a parallel path
that goes past all the big box stores. For example, this is in the area
of your link:

https://goo.gl/maps/ddyaaRbJTLE2

Leads past Trader Joe's which carries delicious Italian farmer's bread.
If not interested in the stores one can take School Street which has
very little traffic. I never mind using non-busy streets but I do mind
busy ones.

Outside the city core, for example, towards Home Depot, we have bike
lanes. I cycled down there yesterday to pick up supplies for my
home-brewing. Very pleasant ride, almost all on bike paths while in
Folsom. I just had to schlepp the load back up the hill and because
pressed for time had to use busy Green Valley Road.

Oh, and the supply place is partly under construction because they will
open a taproom in spring. Yeehaw!


It looks like most of the physically separated lanes go through
residential areas. The Humbug-Willow Creek Trail does appear to drop
you next to a Peets, so that's worth something. It's better than
Starbucks. But you're going to have to ride on the road if you want
to go to Jimboy's Tacos. Egads!


I don't visit any of those chain restaurant places. If you want that you
can go to Dos Coyotes Coffee where you can literally roll off the
Willow-Creek bike path and plop into a patio chair. In Folsom it is very
easy to prefer shops along bike paths.


If you want a taco, you'll have to
risk your life on a road. I hope its a good taco.


Isn't this good enough?

http://doscoyotes.com/

Right at the bike path. Same as others:

http://www.skipolinis.com/menu.php?l...ry=New_Entrees

https://igx.4sqi.net/img/general/wid...VQ5z85issU.jpg

http://www.mexquite.com/

http://www.backbistro.com/

http://www.folsomtaphouse.com/

And on and on. As you can see, plenty of bicycle-friendly choices. Or
you cycle a bit farther on the American River bike path with which
Willow-Creek connects, cross a cylist/hikers-only bridge and visit these
folks:

http://fairoaksbrewpub.com/

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-12-05 23:29, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:03:03 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 17:29, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:41:22 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 16:23, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:20 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 12:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.


On trails my safety is under _my_ control. On busy roads my safety is
under the control of drivers in various states of distraction,
inebriation and more recently "stonedness".

Now that was simple, wasn't it?

If safety on trails under the control of the rider and you brag that
you ride on one trail that has sent many people to the hospital then
what are you saying here? That you ride on a trail where many people
can't control themselves? That many MTB riders can't or won't control
themselves?


They take excessive risks. "Doctor, I can swear 110% that this rock
wasn't in the trail last week".


If "they take excessive risks" then why do you claim that the "trail
has sent many people to the hospital"?

Or is it that a little exaggeration makes for a much more exciting
narration?


Looks like you have been away from America for too long to remember
common expressions.


You mean like "The trail has sent many people to the hospital".
Well, yes I must admit that I am not familiar with that phrase.

Perhaps I an a bit forgetful so kindly explain how an inanimate piece
of real estate that is just there "sends people to the hospital"?


It is a common saying in the US. Example:

https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/481...al-singletrack

Quote "Nice ride, don't underestimate it. Huge log in trail sent me into
the bushes on my back".


Do you mean that it somehow comes to life and rears up and bites
people like a snake? Or Does it some crush them like an elephant
stamped on them? Or maybe pieces of it just break off and fall down
steep hills and bury people?


The latter actually has happened :-)

Luckily nobody was on this bike path when it happened. It is one I use a
lot:

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/outdoor...169693992.html


I have heard of a volcano "erupting" and burying people and even
causing airplanes to nearly fall out of the sky but the term "erupt"
does convey a sense of motion. Perhaps your "trail that sends people
to the hospital" erupts?

Or is this just another example of some clumsy fellow that falls down
and then rather then admit that "Yes, I stumbled", tries to blame it
on an inanimate rock? "See! See! If that rock hadn't been there I'd
never have tripped!"


There is usually some degree of pilot error involved. Not always though.
I once almost crashed because a young buck cut me off.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/7/2017 11:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-06 12:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 1:40:47 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-05 09:42, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 10:06:27 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 18:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 7:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 16:23, John B. wrote:

Damn! You are making the public highways look better and
better.


They will never be better unless you remove the motor
vehicles from there. Or add segregated bikes paths like
they did he

https://goo.gl/maps/NBzpVUA58tq

That's not a segregated bike path. That's a shoulder on a
road. In most states it's not even considered part of the
roadway. I know lots of cyclists never leave the shoulder,
but that can bring its own problems, since legal protections
often exist only for those operating on the roadway.


Now go look for your glasses, put them on and take a peek again
but this time farther to the right. In case you still don't see
it I have zoomed it in for you here (but then please see an
optometrist before operating any vehicle):

https://goo.gl/maps/nreBX5Qc7eH2

Well, perhaps you should have posted that first, no?


No. Look at the first link. It is clearly visible and I posted it
to show how well the separation between road and bike path is done.
Also to show that this has bike lanes plus bike path, like other
roads in Folsom do. If you didn't see that bike path I suggest to
at least not operate a motor vehicle unless your vision has been
checked out.

It's not really that clear.Â* The separate path is in the shadow, ...


When mentioned as separate bike path in my text and still not seeing it
that should be of concern.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* ... and
the first thing that the viewer sees is the wide curb lane.


"But I didn't see it" is a common excuse after accidents. Got to pay
attention.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... BTW, it
just ends, right? And then it turns into an ordinary bike lane on
Natoma.


Not anymore. Google Maps is quite outdated in many areas and is often
years behind. There is a seamless bike path all the way into Folsom
Downtown. It later veers off the road and goes through fields, very
nicely built.

Folsom is rather fast in expanding their cycling infrastructure. From El
Dorado Hills several cycling facilities to pick from seamlessly go all
the way through into the core of Folsom, and then on from there.

The reward for them is that people like me leave a chunk of their
discretionary money in Folsom.


Also, it looks like the major shopping areas are accessible in the
usual ways -- on roads. I'm not seeing any separated paths around the
central mall-shopping area like the WalMart Supercenter. Riley has a
bike lane.Â* Bidwell has nothing.


Although I'd have no problem with that nice wide lane.


In the inner city there are roads but you can cycle on a parallel path
that goes past all the big box stores. For example, this is in the area
of your link:

https://goo.gl/maps/ddyaaRbJTLE2

Leads past Trader Joe's which carries delicious Italian farmer's bread.
If not interested in the stores one can take School Street which has
very little traffic. I never mind using non-busy streets but I do mind
busy ones.

Outside the city core, for example, towards Home Depot, we have bike
lanes. I cycled down there yesterday to pick up supplies for my
home-brewing. Very pleasant ride, almost all on bike paths while in
Folsom. I just had to schlepp the load back up the hill and because
pressed for time had to use busy Green Valley Road.

Oh, and the supply place is partly under construction because they will
open a taproom in spring. Yeehaw!


It looks like most of the physically separated lanes go through
residential areas. The Humbug-Willow Creek Trail does appear to drop
you next to a Peets, so that's worth something.Â* It's better than
Starbucks. But you're going to have to ride on the road if you want
to go to Jimboy's Tacos. Egads!


I don't visit any of those chain restaurant places. If you want that you
can go to Dos Coyotes Coffee where you can literally roll off the
Willow-Creek bike path and plop into a patio chair. In Folsom it is very
easy to prefer shops along bike paths.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* If you want a taco, you'll have to
risk your life on a road.Â* I hope its a good taco.


Isn't this good enough?

http://doscoyotes.com/

Right at the bike path. Same as others:

http://www.skipolinis.com/menu.php?l...ry=New_Entrees

https://igx.4sqi.net/img/general/wid...VQ5z85issU.jpg


http://www.mexquite.com/

http://www.backbistro.com/

http://www.folsomtaphouse.com/

And on and on. As you can see, plenty of bicycle-friendly choices. Or
you cycle a bit farther on the American River bike path with which
Willow-Creek connects, cross a cylist/hikers-only bridge and visit these
folks:

http://fairoaksbrewpub.com/

If I wanted to list the restaurants I can reach by bicycle, I'd have to
list every restaurant in town. That's because I'm not afraid to ride on
regular roads.

I used to lead a fun series of rides for our bike club: "Ethnic
Restaurant Ride." The scheme was we'd do a leisurely ride, typically
about 25 miles, and eat at some restaurant. Could be Syrian, Italian,
Jewish, Chinese, Mexican, Hungarian, whatever - it was a secret until we
arrived. We rode country roads, suburban roads, and/or city streets, and
I picked quiet routes as much as possible.

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all and there was plenty of room for the few cars
to pass us, but one novice on the ride was absolutely terrified. She'd
never ridden a four-lane before and she seemed to have it in her head
that it would be fatal.

I wonder if she'd been talking to Joerg.


--
- Frank Krygowski