Calfee Stiletto Pick by Velo News as one of the top 5 coolest bikes of Interbike

PaPa wrote in message ...
snip

I don't generally agree.

As head tube angle approaches vertical, steering sensitivity
increases (this is just one of the contributing reasons why a SWB is
reportably "twitcher" than a LWB). At say, 60 degrees head tube
angle, much of the pilot's rotational steering input actually "tilts"
the front wheel instead of rotating it. This effectively changes the
input-to-response ratio.

Pilot preference and weight, design, CG, wheel base and a host of other
factors determine "optimal head tube angle"

The Slovenian "Eivie' streamliner has a near-90-degree head angle, 16"
front wheel, cable steering, head-first-looking-in-a-mirror
navigation... and they still managed to set a European speed record of
68.21 mph at Battle Mountain.

Pictures:
http://www.ohpv.org/albums/bm2003/at.../photo_24.html
http://www.ohpv.org/albums/bm2003/at.../photo_23.html
http://www.ohpv.org/albums/bm2003/at...s/photo_6.html
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...03-Hodalic.htm

Jeff

Jeff Wills wrote:
PaPa wrote in message
...
The Slovenian "Eivie' streamliner has a near-90-degree head angle, 16"
front wheel, cable steering, head-first-looking-in-a-mirror
navigation... and they still managed to set a European speed record of
68.21 mph at Battle Mountain.
Jeff



So, what are you implying Jeff? That vertical or near vertical head
tubes are optimum? If that were the case.... which I believe it is not
(in most designs), why don't DF manufactures imploy it? And closer to
home... why didn't Freddie and Calfree go vertical? I think I know
why... just curious what your views are. My side-views of the Stilleto
guess it closer to 68-70 degrees.



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Jeff Wills wrote:
PaPa wrote in message
...
The Slovenian "Eivie' streamliner has a near-90-degree head angle, 16"
front wheel, cable steering, head-first-looking-in-a-mirror
navigation... and they still managed to set a European speed record of
68.21 mph at Battle Mountain.
Jeff



So, what are you implying Jeff? That vertical or near vertical head
tubes are optimum? If that were the case.... which I believe it is not
(in most designs), why don't DF manufactures imploy it? And closer to
home... why didn't Freddie and Calfree go vertical? I think I know
why... just curious what your views are. My side-views of the Stilleto
guess it closer to 68-70 degrees.



--
--------------------------
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http://www.cyclingforums.com

) wrote in message om...
In my book this is huge since I can't even remember the last time VN
even printed the word recumbent. I know most of you here probably
don't know what VN is, only the best bike racing mag there is really.I
know this must sicken a few of you...but it's making our day at
Calfee. This is the bike a lot of those racers will buy. Oh and
Joshua, the fairings are around in just about any color you want. You
folks hang in there....RCN and BROL will have test articles in there
soon. In 2004 I'll be taking the Stiletto around the country for
various events so some of you will see first hand just how nice these
bikes are and how well they go
Freddy
bike is looking real nice , the calfee teck department says that a
btc coupler may be available next spring, thats what i am looking for
, need a bike that can be shipped or put into a smaller car trunk or
hatch. doesnt make sence in this day of fuel prices to need to buy a
van or large vehicle just to transport a bicycle. looking forward,
the money i save on fuel by not replacing my astro awd van, will
easily pay for this bike. now just got to make it fit in a
minicooper or other small car to really grab the new young market!
best mike

I'm in love..........................

But emotions aside....... I have been puzzling over some mysteries....
It looks like the head tube angle is about 71 deg. which naturally would
requjire indirect steering unless the demographics indicated that all of
the stilleto customers would be orangutangs.

This said...Does the fairing swing with the fork? Or is it fixed
fore and aft with the front wheel swinging from side to side in the
wheel cutout.

I need a bigger JPG. The one I have is on my desktop as "background". I
do this to better develop the rationalization that I am in ABSOLUTE need
of a copy, (for medicinal purposes only, of course). My grandmother used
to tell me that you can get used to hanging if you hang long enough. If
it was good enough for her then it is good enough for me.

Jerry



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--------------------------
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JEGARH wrote in message ...
I'm in love..........................

Yea, me too. Between the Stiletto, carbon forks, seats, fairings and
everything else going on I haven't had much of a chance to get back in
here lately. But to answer a few questions and address a few
misconceptions again.

First off, CF just dosen't explode...unless you pack some C-4 in it
somewhere. There are some applications I've seen where CF did fail
because of poor craftsmanship, mainly wrinkles on the inside of the
layup (not a Calfee product). I just want to say again that CF is
going to out last most bikes made out of Alu, cro-mo or ti. If anyone
is interested in learning more about the properties of CF go to
www.calfeedesign.com click on construction and scroll to the bottom of
the page and click on the technical write paper. I've said this
before, but everytime I turn around there's someone else saying CF
won't last or is brittle or on and on...so if your one of those folks,
please read the TWP.
Anytime you see a CF failure you have to ask yourself if the part that
failed was engineered correctly or was the builder mainly trying to
save weight and went just a bit light. Also,just a bit of personal
advice that you don't have to take....don't believe anything you read
out of the NY times, they've shown time and again how they can't get
facts right about most everything, including facts about CF, Oh well.

The Stiletto fairing is attached at the top to the center of the
steering colume and pivots there. It's also attached to the forks with
some mounts. The handlebars turn at a different radius than the
forks...the fairing flexes some, but it works good. The top of the
fairing doesn't move much the bottom move a little bit.

On the remote steering...it's a tall order to try and improve on a
Gold Rush, but what I've tried to do is make the Stiletto handle
better. The remote steering allows us to use about a 70 degree head
angle which allows us to use CF forks and steering tubes. With this
geometry I've eliminated front fork flop, eliminated or reduces tiller
in the steering and all this puts a bit more traction to the front
tire. Low speed handling is a dream...no wobbles either starting or
climbing streeps hills. One other thing is the Stiletto is predicable
when you get a flat tire, either front or rear. Your not riding some
kind of bike with a high center of gravity, so when you get out of
shape your history. Some folks have said that they don't care for the
looks of the handlebar setup on the Stiletto....thats OK, because I've
heard for years not everybody likes the chopper style bars on a
ER...to each their own. But to ride a Stiletto is to understand the
differences.

I've said before that the reason I started with a LWB bike is because
I believe it's the best all around design going. Hardly any getting
used to, starts, accelerates and stops better than just about anything
else on the road, corners better than most other recumbents, and now
that the Stiletto is in the low twenties it climbs even better. The
ride quality on the Stiletto is so nice I bet most people will
appreciate that part of the bike more than just about anything else.
This bike acts like it's on a full suspension, but without the weight
or pogo effect.

How fast is a Stiletto?...well with the body sock setup at least as
fast as a Gold Rush down hills and Rand Milan had his GR up to 74mph.
After Rand gets his Stiletto I look forward to hearing him say he hit
80mph. But that's what I've been saying for years...the stability of a
LWB bike is what allows these kinds of speeds with the right aero
package. Anybody been over to BROL and read the max lowracer speeds?
Pathetic speeds really, hardly anyone gets over 40...on a low racer or
a high racer for that matter because they just aren't that predictable
at high speed where you might hit a rouge gust of wind. I can hear
some of you saying that I've probably never been on anything but a LWB
bike and don't know what I'm talking about...and you'd be wrong. I've
been on just about everything, just to add some news Calfee Design
will introduce a SWB bike next year. So, unfaired the Stiletto is not
all that fast, but sure is fun, easy and comfortable. Want to go fast
get the body sock and rule the pacelines.

The toughest thing about any LWB bike is it's length. The Stiletto is
available with titanium S&S couplers. But I just have to add that it's
to bad that some folks compromise their bike choice just so it will
fit in a car. If you don't have to don't.

To address someone like NOGOSLOW who used to ride LWB bikes but now
rides a high BB bike. He probably never rode the ER bikes correctly
and there is a proper way to get the most power and handling out of
one. I know a lot of folks out there are low impact type riders or
ride long flat straight roads...that is where a high bb bike or
lowracer does alright. I'm here to tell you that those bikes can't do
what my Stiletto can. My web site on www.ffmcycling.com will address
most of these issues about getting the most out of your bike. Don't
worry the sites not exclusive... if your on a SWB or low racer or
whatever your welcome to check it out and learn whatever you can.

I'll end this by saying that I'm not capable of designing a bike
everyone would love anymore than a carmaker can design something we
would all like, and don't get me wrong I'm not taking cheap shots at
other bikes even though it might sound like it. But after 30 years of
racing I know what I like and I like this bike best. Lots of recumbent
designs will go the way of the dinosaure, but not the LWB bikes
Freddy

Just curious. When will you be able to update your website so that the
links at the left of the page will give some information?

Thanks,

Terry (GRR in the Ozarks)
wrote in message
om...
JEGARH wrote in message
...
I'm in love..........................

Yea, me too. Between the Stiletto, carbon forks, seats, fairings and
everything else going on I haven't had much of a chance to get back in
here lately. But to answer a few questions and address a few
misconceptions again.

First off, CF just dosen't explode...unless you pack some C-4 in it
somewhere. There are some applications I've seen where CF did fail
because of poor craftsmanship, mainly wrinkles on the inside of the
layup (not a Calfee product). I just want to say again that CF is
going to out last most bikes made out of Alu, cro-mo or ti. If anyone
is interested in learning more about the properties of CF go to
www.calfeedesign.com click on construction and scroll to the bottom of
the page and click on the technical write paper. I've said this
before, but everytime I turn around there's someone else saying CF
won't last or is brittle or on and on...so if your one of those folks,
please read the TWP.
Anytime you see a CF failure you have to ask yourself if the part that
failed was engineered correctly or was the builder mainly trying to
save weight and went just a bit light. Also,just a bit of personal
advice that you don't have to take....don't believe anything you read
out of the NY times, they've shown time and again how they can't get
facts right about most everything, including facts about CF, Oh well.

The Stiletto fairing is attached at the top to the center of the
steering colume and pivots there. It's also attached to the forks with
some mounts. The handlebars turn at a different radius than the
forks...the fairing flexes some, but it works good. The top of the
fairing doesn't move much the bottom move a little bit.

On the remote steering...it's a tall order to try and improve on a
Gold Rush, but what I've tried to do is make the Stiletto handle
better. The remote steering allows us to use about a 70 degree head
angle which allows us to use CF forks and steering tubes. With this
geometry I've eliminated front fork flop, eliminated or reduces tiller
in the steering and all this puts a bit more traction to the front
tire. Low speed handling is a dream...no wobbles either starting or
climbing streeps hills. One other thing is the Stiletto is predicable
when you get a flat tire, either front or rear. Your not riding some
kind of bike with a high center of gravity, so when you get out of
shape your history. Some folks have said that they don't care for the
looks of the handlebar setup on the Stiletto....thats OK, because I've
heard for years not everybody likes the chopper style bars on a
ER...to each their own. But to ride a Stiletto is to understand the
differences.

I've said before that the reason I started with a LWB bike is because
I believe it's the best all around design going. Hardly any getting
used to, starts, accelerates and stops better than just about anything
else on the road, corners better than most other recumbents, and now
that the Stiletto is in the low twenties it climbs even better. The
ride quality on the Stiletto is so nice I bet most people will
appreciate that part of the bike more than just about anything else.
This bike acts like it's on a full suspension, but without the weight
or pogo effect.

How fast is a Stiletto?...well with the body sock setup at least as
fast as a Gold Rush down hills and Rand Milan had his GR up to 74mph.
After Rand gets his Stiletto I look forward to hearing him say he hit
80mph. But that's what I've been saying for years...the stability of a
LWB bike is what allows these kinds of speeds with the right aero
package. Anybody been over to BROL and read the max lowracer speeds?
Pathetic speeds really, hardly anyone gets over 40...on a low racer or
a high racer for that matter because they just aren't that predictable
at high speed where you might hit a rouge gust of wind. I can hear
some of you saying that I've probably never been on anything but a LWB
bike and don't know what I'm talking about...and you'd be wrong. I've
been on just about everything, just to add some news Calfee Design
will introduce a SWB bike next year. So, unfaired the Stiletto is not
all that fast, but sure is fun, easy and comfortable. Want to go fast
get the body sock and rule the pacelines.

The toughest thing about any LWB bike is it's length. The Stiletto is
available with titanium S&S couplers. But I just have to add that it's
to bad that some folks compromise their bike choice just so it will
fit in a car. If you don't have to don't.

To address someone like NOGOSLOW who used to ride LWB bikes but now
rides a high BB bike. He probably never rode the ER bikes correctly
and there is a proper way to get the most power and handling out of
one. I know a lot of folks out there are low impact type riders or
ride long flat straight roads...that is where a high bb bike or
lowracer does alright. I'm here to tell you that those bikes can't do
what my Stiletto can. My web site on www.ffmcycling.com will address
most of these issues about getting the most out of your bike. Don't
worry the sites not exclusive... if your on a SWB or low racer or
whatever your welcome to check it out and learn whatever you can.

I'll end this by saying that I'm not capable of designing a bike
everyone would love anymore than a carmaker can design something we
would all like, and don't get me wrong I'm not taking cheap shots at
other bikes even though it might sound like it. But after 30 years of
racing I know what I like and I like this bike best. Lots of recumbent
designs will go the way of the dinosaure, but not the LWB bikes
Freddy

Good post, Freddy. Thanks for the update.

Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
wrote in message
om...
JEGARH wrote in message
...
I'm in love..........................

Yea, me too. Between the Stiletto, carbon forks, seats, fairings and
everything else going on I haven't had much of a chance to get back in
here lately. But to answer a few questions and address a few
misconceptions again.

First off, CF just dosen't explode...unless you pack some C-4 in it
somewhere. There are some applications I've seen where CF did fail
because of poor craftsmanship, mainly wrinkles on the inside of the
layup (not a Calfee product). I just want to say again that CF is
going to out last most bikes made out of Alu, cro-mo or ti. If anyone
is interested in learning more about the properties of CF go to
www.calfeedesign.com click on construction and scroll to the bottom of
the page and click on the technical write paper. I've said this
before, but everytime I turn around there's someone else saying CF
won't last or is brittle or on and on...so if your one of those folks,
please read the TWP.
Anytime you see a CF failure you have to ask yourself if the part that
failed was engineered correctly or was the builder mainly trying to
save weight and went just a bit light. Also,just a bit of personal
advice that you don't have to take....don't believe anything you read
out of the NY times, they've shown time and again how they can't get
facts right about most everything, including facts about CF, Oh well.

The Stiletto fairing is attached at the top to the center of the
steering colume and pivots there. It's also attached to the forks with
some mounts. The handlebars turn at a different radius than the
forks...the fairing flexes some, but it works good. The top of the
fairing doesn't move much the bottom move a little bit.

On the remote steering...it's a tall order to try and improve on a
Gold Rush, but what I've tried to do is make the Stiletto handle
better. The remote steering allows us to use about a 70 degree head
angle which allows us to use CF forks and steering tubes. With this
geometry I've eliminated front fork flop, eliminated or reduces tiller
in the steering and all this puts a bit more traction to the front
tire. Low speed handling is a dream...no wobbles either starting or
climbing streeps hills. One other thing is the Stiletto is predicable
when you get a flat tire, either front or rear. Your not riding some
kind of bike with a high center of gravity, so when you get out of
shape your history. Some folks have said that they don't care for the
looks of the handlebar setup on the Stiletto....thats OK, because I've
heard for years not everybody likes the chopper style bars on a
ER...to each their own. But to ride a Stiletto is to understand the
differences.

I've said before that the reason I started with a LWB bike is because
I believe it's the best all around design going. Hardly any getting
used to, starts, accelerates and stops better than just about anything
else on the road, corners better than most other recumbents, and now
that the Stiletto is in the low twenties it climbs even better. The
ride quality on the Stiletto is so nice I bet most people will
appreciate that part of the bike more than just about anything else.
This bike acts like it's on a full suspension, but without the weight
or pogo effect.

How fast is a Stiletto?...well with the body sock setup at least as
fast as a Gold Rush down hills and Rand Milan had his GR up to 74mph.
After Rand gets his Stiletto I look forward to hearing him say he hit
80mph. But that's what I've been saying for years...the stability of a
LWB bike is what allows these kinds of speeds with the right aero
package. Anybody been over to BROL and read the max lowracer speeds?
Pathetic speeds really, hardly anyone gets over 40...on a low racer or
a high racer for that matter because they just aren't that predictable
at high speed where you might hit a rouge gust of wind. I can hear
some of you saying that I've probably never been on anything but a LWB
bike and don't know what I'm talking about...and you'd be wrong. I've
been on just about everything, just to add some news Calfee Design
will introduce a SWB bike next year. So, unfaired the Stiletto is not
all that fast, but sure is fun, easy and comfortable. Want to go fast
get the body sock and rule the pacelines.

The toughest thing about any LWB bike is it's length. The Stiletto is
available with titanium S&S couplers. But I just have to add that it's
to bad that some folks compromise their bike choice just so it will
fit in a car. If you don't have to don't.

To address someone like NOGOSLOW who used to ride LWB bikes but now
rides a high BB bike. He probably never rode the ER bikes correctly
and there is a proper way to get the most power and handling out of
one. I know a lot of folks out there are low impact type riders or
ride long flat straight roads...that is where a high bb bike or
lowracer does alright. I'm here to tell you that those bikes can't do
what my Stiletto can. My web site on www.ffmcycling.com will address
most of these issues about getting the most out of your bike. Don't
worry the sites not exclusive... if your on a SWB or low racer or
whatever your welcome to check it out and learn whatever you can.

I'll end this by saying that I'm not capable of designing a bike
everyone would love anymore than a carmaker can design something we
would all like, and don't get me wrong I'm not taking cheap shots at
other bikes even though it might sound like it. But after 30 years of
racing I know what I like and I like this bike best. Lots of recumbent
designs will go the way of the dinosaure, but not the LWB bikes
Freddy