Unfaired Recumbent vs. Upright Speed Comparisons

Quoth "Mark Leuck" :
| "Jude T. McGloin" wrote in message
| ...
....
| Where I ride a LowRacer would be just fine. I am considering a
| Baron. I mentioned to the Dutch Optima rep that I didn't want a disk brake
| and he smiled and said that they will be again available shortly without
| disks. I don't care to drag anything up a hill I don't have to. I see no use
| for disks on a performance bike. Oh yea I have been lectured about how good
| disks are in inclement weather. Answer....a disk braked, fendered, racked
| and wide tire commuter bent or trike comes to mind. Different bike for
| different purpose.

| I would not consider a Baron (or any other bike )without disc brakes, the
| weight difference is almost nil

Interesting, when I read up on these a few years back (or was that
decades), it seems to me they were mainly a third brake for tandems,
not an especially powerful brake but more like a drag to help out the
main cantilever brakes. But without rim brakes it would be a lot
easier to put on chains for snow, so that's something.

Donn

"Donn Cave" wrote in message
news:1067835124.276392@yasure...
Quoth "Mark Leuck" :
| "Jude T. McGloin" wrote in message
| ...
...
| Where I ride a LowRacer would be just fine. I am considering a
| Baron. I mentioned to the Dutch Optima rep that I didn't want a disk
brake
| and he smiled and said that they will be again available shortly
without
| disks. I don't care to drag anything up a hill I don't have to. I see
no use
| for disks on a performance bike. Oh yea I have been lectured about how
good
| disks are in inclement weather. Answer....a disk braked, fendered,
racked
| and wide tire commuter bent or trike comes to mind. Different bike for
| different purpose.

| I would not consider a Baron (or any other bike )without disc brakes,
the
| weight difference is almost nil

Interesting, when I read up on these a few years back (or was that
decades), it seems to me they were mainly a third brake for tandems,
not an especially powerful brake but more like a drag to help out the
main cantilever brakes. But without rim brakes it would be a lot
easier to put on chains for snow, so that's something.

Donn

The difference between the standard brakes on my Vision and the discs on the
Baron is amazing

Donn Cave wrote:
Interesting, when I read up on these a few years back (or was that
decades), it seems to me they were mainly a third brake for tandems,
not an especially powerful brake but more like a drag to help out the
main cantilever brakes. But without rim brakes it would be a lot
easier to put on chains for snow, so that's something.

You're thinking of drum brakes, specifically the Arai drum that is
especially intended for use as a drag brake on tandems.

There are other drums that are used as primary brakes (e.g.
Sturmey-Archer, Sachs VT5000, Shimano Nexus "roller brakes"). I'm not
so sure that they'd be appropriate for tandems, though.

I haven't heard of a disc brake being intended for use as a drag brake.

--
Russ --kill the wabbit to despam
"...remember that shrink-wrapping the average stick-built suburban bung-
alow against anthrax, VX and radioactive fallout is akin to rolling a
rubber on before diving naked into a shark tank full of blood."
-Patrick O'Grady

"Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
... I don't care to drag anything up a hill I don't have to. I see no
use for disks on a performance bike....

Unless the bike is fully faired - there have been several reports of
Lightning F-40 riders' melting/burning the brake pads while riding in
the mountains.

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Curmudgeon

Tom Sherman must be edykated coz e writed:


"Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
... I don't care to drag anything up a hill I don't have to. I see no
use for disks on a performance bike....

Unless the bike is fully faired - there have been several reports of
Lightning F-40 riders' melting/burning the brake pads while riding in
the mountains.

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Curmudgeon
Also on trikes with no forks.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

What Donn said. The stock Magura discs on the Baron are not particularly
light (or effective, if mine are typical of the marque), but something like
a Hope Mini, Magura Marta or Formula B4 certainly is. Depending on Santa's
generosity, Cosimo may yet sport a pair of Minis next year...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

According to the original published data, which I have in a copy of "HPV
Nieuws" buried somewhere in Newsletter Central, "Test conditions were the
same in all cases, viz. smooth asphalt, no wind, air pressure 1000 mbar, air
temperature 20 deg. C, high-pressure tyres, rider wearing race-type
clothing. The rider (one of the Baron brothers, I believe - Ed), is 1.84 m
tall and weighs 75 kg, while the recumbent bikes have their bottom brackets
approximately 20 cm above the seat, ASS of the "arms-straight" persuasion
and a seat-back angle of 25 degrees."

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

"Jude T. McGloin" wrote in message ...
Harry,
Interesting summation and for what its worth I agree with most of it.
I do however on occasion ride in pace lines with my HighRacer.
Where I ride a LowRacer would be just fine. I am considering a
Baron. I mentioned to the Dutch Optima rep that I didn't want a disk brake
and he smiled and said that they will be again available shortly without
disks. I don't care to drag anything up a hill I don't have to. I see no use
for disks on a performance bike. Oh yea I have been lectured about how good

I understand. My disc brakes do stop quicker than anything else I
have used, are trouble free and very low maintainance but you are
carrying more hardware. Another problem I had this fall is when I
discovered a split front rim after a Saturday ride. It was the Labor
Day weekend and I had a 3 day ride starting the Tuesday after Labor
Day. I spent all the rest of Saturday on the phone trying to find a
406, 36 hole rim in any lbs within 100 miles of me, to no avail. I
did find a couple of prebuilt wheels but they didn't have a disc hub,
of course. I rode the 3 day ride, in hilly terrain, with a bmx bike
wheel on the front and no brake.

I believe the new Barons come with the mounts for cantilever brakes on
them, even though they are disc equipped. Mine has the mount on the
rear but not the fork but someone told me the forks now have a
mounting hole also.

I believe you will like the Baron. As I said, it handles very well,
is comfortable on the roads and can be very fast, especially in
rollers and into headwinds. Interesting that you are considering one
for certain riding and i am considering a high racer for certain
riding. The right tools for the right job!

Harry

Visibility in Traffic
High racers are taller and more visible than lowracers. Visibility is
absolutely crucial for safety when riding along roads populated with cars
(which means pretty much everywhere). Lowracers, and tadpole trikes, are
very low and not nearly as visible to tall vehicles such as SUV's and
18-wheelers.

IMO, this is a total fallacy and based on one's personal perception,
not facts. High racers may be taller but why would taller be more
visible? A motor vehicle operator has to be able to see the road
surface in order to stay on the road and drive safely on it. Anything
as tall as a lowracer on a road should be easily visible, if a driver
is as alert as he should be. In 3 years of riding my Baron on many
miles of busy, open roads, I haven't had a single instance where I
feel someone didn't see me because of the height of my bike.

I have to disagree here. On an open road in a rural or similar area it
is true but in an urban are the ability to see over cars (or atleast
through thier windows) comes in very useful. I can see the car that
wants to turn left in front of me and make sure he sees me on my
Strada but when I rode the Baron I had to be much more careful. It
also helps to see over cars parked on the street an over shrubs
planted too close to the intersection corner. True there are still
sometimes when vehicles or obstacles are too tall to see over on the
Strada but they are much less common than those I can't see over on
the Baron.

Limited Steering and Steep Learning Curve

Maybe, but my Baron has very good road manners and impecable handling.
My transition from my V-Rex to my Baron was pretty rapid and involved
no falls. I wouldn't classify the learning curve for it as steep by
any means.

I agree I found the Baron easier to ride than the Strada, Saber or
Wishbone. It handled very nice at slow speeds and loved curves at high
speeds. Plus the disk brakes gave alot of confidence and control when
needing to arrest the exceptional speeds the lowracer was capable.

I believe it is clear that lowracers offer the best performance
potential for open road riding, on good, flat to rolling roads. The
aero efficiency of lowracers increases when riding into headwinds
because of the lower wind velocity near the ground surface. Because
of this, I think my Baron is the ideal performance bike for the riding
I do, on mostly flat to rolling terrain and fair to good roads.
However in other areas, in real, everyday riding on varied road
surfaces and more hilly terrain, the high racers might offer a more
balanced alternative. I know I am looking hard at them for those very
reasons.

Harry

I've owned a Baron and a Strada so I've been on both ends of the high
vs. low argument. The Baron was faster for me in nearly all my riding.
I didn't feel that I lost anything climbing but I had much more
confidence (and therefore faster) on the decent and the Baron was a
couple of mph faster on a flat cruise. However I commute 8.5 miles
each way through an urban area with ~40 stop lights/signs and many
more intersections. I did not feel comfortable rideing this route on
the Baron but the Strada works very well. It would probably be easier
on a lower BB bike but I didn't want to give up that much performance.

Craig

Dave Larrington must be edykated coz e writed:

What Donn said. The stock Magura discs on the Baron are not particularly
light (or effective, if mine are typical of the marque), but something like
a Hope Mini, Magura Marta or Formula B4 certainly is. Depending on Santa's
generosity, Cosimo may yet sport a pair of Minis next year...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========


The Mini s on the Catrike are wonderful beasties.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk