How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

Chalo wrote:
jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
jim beam wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken
spokes and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?
Wok with motor oil. Turn on high.
destroys their strength.
sigh.
He's oversimplifying. �Some surface treatments (e.g. oil residue) will
blacken well below the annealing point of stainless,
you can soften well below annealing chalo. �you /do/ know about
martensitic transitions don't you?

Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.

er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why
they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?



A distinguished metallurgical expert like you certainly knows that at
about 1100F, or about the temperature at which a steel item _glows red
in normal room lighting_, 304 stainless begins to become "sensitized",
or what most of us would think of as starting the annealing process.
By the time it reaches 1850F it's fully annealed.

It'd take a hell of a wok to dish up 1100F. By then you'd have a fire
anyway if there were oil involved.

Maybe you were thinking about those, ahem, "clever" aluminum spokes
made by your favorite rim manufacturer?

what are you like underneath that big red nose and funny shoes chalo?
apart from being too dumb to know when you're hopelessly out of your
depth that is.

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

Carl - enamelling is not an option, but nice try. I love your links.

Peter suggested I just buy black spokes. Easier said than done. I'm
not in the US or UK but in South Africa. It's a small market and
finding non-standard spokes are difficult. I often have to repair X
wheel with two black bladed spokes that need replacement or someone
wants a Z wheel that matches his PowerTap or some other oddity. Buying/
importing a box of those specific spokes is not viable and secondly,
they're not locally available. As it is, I'm cutting and threading to
compensate for the lack of bladed spokes in the country, now I'm faced
with the additional problem of black too.

I'm looking for something whereby I can quickly/reasonably quickly
colour a silver spoke to match that in an existing wheel. I've checked
out the local electroplaters but I had no success. The only place that
seems to do it is an armaments company and they're not interested in
my half dozen spokes.

On Thu, 14 May 2009 05:37:50 -0700, jim beam wrote:


Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.

er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why
they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?


As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check.

First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle
Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the
last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the
highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% Nickle enhances the
stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to
maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains
non-magnetic, even after cold-working.

I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used.
And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds
that of fact as reported by his elders and betters...

....so...

....I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put
in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are.

First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted,
stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at
it). The magnet didn't attract any of them.

Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with
something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". The magnet didn't
attract any of 'em.

THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the
70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. Not magnetic.

Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted -
just got em a few weeks ago. Not magnetic.

This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.

Johan Bornman wrote:
Thanks for all the helpful comments.

Carl - enamelling is not an option, but nice try. I love your links.

Peter suggested I just buy black spokes. Easier said than done. I'm
not in the US or UK but in South Africa. It's a small market and
finding non-standard spokes are difficult. I often have to repair X
wheel with two black bladed spokes that need replacement or someone
wants a Z wheel that matches his PowerTap or some other oddity. Buying/
importing a box of those specific spokes is not viable and secondly,
they're not locally available. As it is, I'm cutting and threading to
compensate for the lack of bladed spokes in the country, now I'm faced
with the additional problem of black too.

I'm looking for something whereby I can quickly/reasonably quickly
colour a silver spoke to match that in an existing wheel. I've checked
out the local electroplaters but I had no success. The only place that
seems to do it is an armaments company and they're not interested in
my half dozen spokes.

For the occasional odd piece, we use a black paint pen.
http://www.marvy.com/product_details.aspx?ProductID=40

Faster than you'd expect.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

jtaylor wrote:

jim beam wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. *They don't heat treat. *You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.

er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. *that's why
they're magnetic. *because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? *you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?

As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check.

First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle
Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the
last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the
highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% *Nickle enhances the
stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to
maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains
non-magnetic, even after cold-working.

I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used.
And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds
that of fact as reported by his elders and betters...

...so...

...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put
in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are.

First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted,
stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at
it). *The magnet didn't attract any of them.

Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with
something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". *The magnet didn't
attract any of 'em.

THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the
70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. *Not magnetic.

Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted -
just got em a few weeks ago. *Not magnetic.

This of course, is not exhaustive. *And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.

I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy
technical errors within his purported field of expertise. All it nets
us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse.

But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway.

Chalo

"_" wrote in message
.. .
snip
This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of
the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.

LOL, that was a great post

Cheers Dre

On 5/13/2009 10:18 PM Tosspot wrote:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
On 5/13/2009 6:44 PM RonSonic wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2009 21:16:02 -0400, Still Just Me
wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2009 22:05:52 GMT, Peter Cole
wrote:

I don't like nukes, wouldn't consider making one at home, but that
doesn't mean I don't find the subject interesting.
I think you need to open up your horizons a little more. Backyard
ICBM's can be an enjoyable hobby.
Neighborhood Nuclear Superiority is the new stainless gas grill.
Which we can make black.

Not without annealing the metal and causing nuclear Armagedon.

Well, yeah. That goes without saying.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

jtaylor wrote:

jim beam wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. *They don't heat treat. *You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.

er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. *that's why
they're magnetic. *because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? *you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?

As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check.

First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle
Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the
last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the
highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% *Nickle enhances the
stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to
maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains
non-magnetic, even after cold-working.

I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used.
And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds
that of fact as reported by his elders and betters...

...so...

...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put
in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are.

First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted,
stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at
it). *The magnet didn't attract any of them.

Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with
something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". *The magnet didn't
attract any of 'em.

THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the
70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. *Not magnetic.

Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted -
just got em a few weeks ago. *Not magnetic.

This of course, is not exhaustive. *And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.

I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy
technical errors within his purported field of expertise. All it nets
us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse.

But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway.

Thank you for recording the facts of the matter.
We all learn a little bit (except jim beam).

Furthermore, we must have the actual state of affairs
to stand against jim beam's misstatements. It is not
pleasant to do so. Thanks again.

--
Michael Press

Chalo wrote:
jtaylor wrote:
jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote:
Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. �They don't heat treat. �You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.
er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. �that's why
they're magnetic. �because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? �you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?
As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check.

First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle
Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the
last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the
highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% �Nickle enhances the
stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to
maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains
non-magnetic, even after cold-working.

I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used.
And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds
that of fact as reported by his elders and betters...

...so...

...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put
in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are.

First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted,
stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at
it). �The magnet didn't attract any of them.

Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with
something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". �The magnet didn't
attract any of 'em.

THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the
70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. �Not magnetic.

Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted -
just got em a few weeks ago. �Not magnetic.

This of course, is not exhaustive. �And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.

I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy
technical errors within his purported field of expertise. All it nets
us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse.

But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway.

Chalo


wow!

q: so how many liars does it take to deceive a clown?
a: none - he can deceive himself.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25ez3uf.jpg

of course, all the ignorati will get their panties in a bunch and shout
"superglue" long before they bother to get a magnet and expose the
idiocy of the famous jtaylor who apparently doesn't know what a magnet
is, but hey, stupidity is not a barrier to entry on usenet.

On May 14, 9:56*pm, jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote:
jtaylor wrote:
jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote:
Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless
alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic
spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself.
er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why
they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not
magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and
pondered these things haven't you?
As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check.

First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle
Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the
last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the
highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% Nickle enhances the
stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to
maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains
non-magnetic, even after cold-working.

I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used.
And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds
that of fact as reported by his elders and betters...

...so...

...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put
in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are.

First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted,
stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at
it). The magnet didn't attract any of them.

Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with
something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". The magnet didn't
attract any of 'em.

THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the
70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. Not magnetic.

Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted -
just got em a few weeks ago. Not magnetic.

This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the
magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that
for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the
cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no
shift-keys.

I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy
technical errors within his purported field of expertise. *All it nets
us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse.

But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway.

Chalo

wow!

q: so how many liars does it take to deceive a clown?
a: none - he can deceive himself.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25ez3uf.jpg

of course, all the ignorati will get their panties in a bunch and shout
"superglue" long before they bother to get a magnet and expose the
idiocy of the famous jtaylor who apparently doesn't know what a magnet
is, but hey, stupidity is not a barrier to entry on usenet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

RBT SATs time!

"Andre" is to "Scum" as "jim" is to "_____"

a) clown
b) ignorati
c) bull****ter
d) all of the above