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#131
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My latest whinge...
Tamyka Bell wrote:
They're a much better lifestyle choice in Australia than continuing with science, where you're expected to work 12-14 hours per day on sh!t pay just to get a **** poor grant next time around. Bah, you are lucky! When I were a lad, we used to dream of such luxury. Is it because we're creating immature school graduates these days who can barely wipe their own bums... Ay, oh ay. And you try and tell the young graduates of today that, and they won't believe you! This thread has not only become a bit philosophical, but is way off topic. It is interesting, though, that there are so many IT or PhD types on this list. Are there? I thought there were just cyclists Tam For your information, there's a lot more to cyclists than people think. Cyclists are like onions. Onions have layers. Cyclists have layers. Get it? [sighs] With apologies, Vince Waiting for: "TimTams! Everybody loves TimTams! TimTams have layers." |
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#132
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My latest whinge...
Vincent Patrick wrote:
Tamyka Bell wrote: They're a much better lifestyle choice in Australia than continuing with science, where you're expected to work 12-14 hours per day on sh!t pay just to get a **** poor grant next time around. Bah, you are lucky! When I were a lad, we used to dream of such luxury. Ah, and it's so hard to get anything other than contract work. How I long for the days of mad physicists in lab coats working in mysterious hidden laboratories... Whatever, I'm going to go into science communication. If you can't fight them, join them. Is it because we're creating immature school graduates these days who can barely wipe their own bums... Ay, oh ay. And you try and tell the young graduates of today that, and they won't believe you! It makes me sick. I see how little people get from their educations, just a few years after I graduated, and I wonder how much I got ripped off - if I'd been to uni a few years earlier, would I too have gotten more out of it? This thread has not only become a bit philosophical, but is way off topic. It is interesting, though, that there are so many IT or PhD types on this list. Are there? I thought there were just cyclists Tam For your information, there's a lot more to cyclists than people think. Cyclists are like onions. Onions have layers. Cyclists have layers. Get it? [sighs] Yep, layers of lycra and superroubaix that protect us to a very minor extent from road/trail rash... oh, you were being philosophical? With apologies, Vince Waiting for: "TimTams! Everybody loves TimTams! TimTams have layers." Mmmmm... Sorry, gotta go get some chocolate... Tam |
#133
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My latest whinge...
Vincent Patrick Wrote: In a strictly off-topic conversation, Tamyka Bell wrote: Vincent Patrick wrote: Tamyka Bell wrote: Vincent Patrick wrote: Tamyka Bell wrote: Exactly - students are expected to pay back HECS debts, and even students on PhD scholarships will as postdocs contribute tax (in a higher bracket than from their undergrad degree) - oh except that with no incentive to keep scientists in Australia, most head overseas... PhDs in a higher tax bracket? You obviously don't mean the PhD scientist I employed who previously had a job stacking comics. :-( Well, at least he had a job. His basic science degree would've got him the dole. Tam I think his non-PhD mates had gotten jobs years before. But were they employed as scientists? Or were they employed as consultants and in generalist APS roles? The point is that they had jobs. You might sneer, but even public service jobs may be well paid jobs. I believe the public service typically offers a better career path than comic shops, which is relevant to the pay issue being discussed. Doing a PhD does not automatically place you into a higher tax bracket, and so PhD "tuition fees" are not necessarily paid back in that way. Not that I think universities should be able to charge for PhD "tuition", but let's not go there. For your jump to scientists, it really depends on how you define 'scientists', and 'consultants'. Just like in the medical world, there is an overlap between consultants and scientists. Or in the bicycle world, where someone can be both a road and mountain bike rider. Just to confuse things more, would you classify a PhD-research-type working for an industrial company as a scientist or not? Mostly they are deluded fools, those who do PhDs for the money. Oops. :-) agreed. There is no money in science in Australia. For your wages or for your research. Thus those who do it for the science end up overseas. Yes and no. If as you state there is no money for science wages in Australia (and better wages overseas), then the logic consequence would be that those seeking money would go overseas, and those content with less money would remain in Australia. The alternative implication, that there is no science in Australia, is specious rather than strictly true. This thread has not only become a bit philosophical, but is way off topic. It is interesting, though, that there are so many IT or PhD types on this list. Cheers, Vince The young bloke who is my nextdoor neighbour has a BSc, PhD, MBA and BMW 320i (a recent wagon model)*. Switched from a job doing research at uni to being CEO of a private company developing medical technology. He spends a lot of time overseas chasing financial backers for his company because there is bugger all financial support in Australia. *indicates a scientist who is doing OK financially (but he can't be doing that well because his bikes are nowhere near as good as mine ) SteveA -- SteveA |
#134
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My latest whinge...
SteveA wrote:
The young bloke who is my nextdoor neighbour has a BSc, PhD, MBA and BMW 320i (a recent wagon model)*. Switched from a job doing research at uni to being CEO of a private company developing medical technology. He spends a lot of time overseas chasing financial backers for his company because there is bugger all financial support in Australia. *indicates a scientist who is doing OK financially (but he can't be doing that well because his bikes are nowhere near as good as mine ) SteveA Yeah, Australia is not known as the greatest place for entrepreneurial capital or research expenditure. Go on, rub it in about the bikes. Makes you wonder, though, what sort of bikes he might be riding if he hadn't spent so much time doing the BSc, PhD and MBA. The real issue is whether your neighbour is doing what he enjoys (I hope so). The youngish guy who has a small parts distribution business next to where I work doesn't have a PhD, but owns a recent model Porsche. I don't own a Porsche but have a road bike, so I reckon I must be doing better. :-) Cheers, Vince |
#135
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My latest whinge...
Tamyka Bell wrote in
: snip Maybe I'll always be an hour behind the marathon winner - but that doesn't matter to me. The winner would never laugh at me, she'd be impressed that I was out there running. An armchair sportsfan might laugh at me, but I'd just think they're a loser for watching when they could be playing. So I guess I feel like there is a serious lack of funding into promoting sport participation for everyone, and that's bad enough. But it seems even worse that there is a continual push for elite funding, spreading the message that sport is only for people who are really good at it. Elite funding from Governmwnt is directly driven by those sitting in the couch demanding Aus. be competitive in the sporting arena and their elected reps following through. Unfortunaletly those that think it is a nonsense are drowned out by the weight of spectator numbers Look at the PM, at the bloody cricket, and a plethora of other politicians prostituting themslves by spectating at sporting events for votes... at least Hawke took up the bat (even if he got whacked in the eye !). I guess the PM walks so good on him for doing that publicly ! As to spectating itself, I can't understanding spectating events where you don't know the participtants, (I can understand watching if your brother, sister, cousin, mother, father, mate, parent whatever are competing but a bare ass'd stranger ? how can you ****bly barrakck for someone you don't know and does not know you... To mis-quote Cat Empire, "seems kinda strange to me" eg I like off road motorcycling (and MTB riding) but have a hard time even spectating the ultimate race in the world, Paris Dakar... Let alone the yawn fest of spectating the Olympics , Commonwealth Games or plethora of football codes, I personally think so called elite funding from Government (business can spend money how they want on sports funding, that should be up to the shareholders) is a nonsense and would much rather see the money spent on lockers and bike storage facilities, or boat sheds for those who want to store a canoe near the river or getting more adults into various sprorts or health care (like free prostate cancer screening for men). By getting adults (and children as well) involved in sport directly or via coaching/teaching you will see a trickle down affect to children.... So, what is to be done, aside from a rant on here ? -- Trevor S "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein |
#136
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My latest whinge...
Trevor_S wrote:
snip So, what is to be done, aside from a rant on here ? Who do we target for this one? What level? T |
#137
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My latest whinge...
Trevor_S Wrote: Elite funding from Governmwnt is directly driven by those sitting in the couch demanding Aus. be competitive in the sporting arena and their elected reps following through. ........ I personally think so called elite funding from Government (business can spend money how they want on sports funding, that should be up to the shareholders) is a nonsense and would much rather see the money spent on lockers and bike storage facilities, or boat sheds for those who want to store a canoe near the river or getting more adults into various sprorts or health care (like free prostate cancer screening for men). By getting adults (and children as well) involved in sport directly or via coaching/teaching you will see a trickle down affect to children.... So, what is to be done, aside from a rant on here ? Trevor S "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein I'm sorry if it sounds Like name dropping but I once drew the comparison between Scince funding and Sports funding with Malcolm McIntosh - at that time head of the CEO and he agreed that at times,both science and sport can be funded for much the same reason - to be seen to be doing something on the World stage. Sometimes this will mean picking and chosing your area to get the most out of the money, and there will inevitably better and more poorly funded disciplines. Sometimes it may mean walking away and doing something completely different when the money you have will never get you critical mass in an area. But sometimes you may have to say 98% or so of the world's research is done outside Australia, perhaps the best thing to do is to take it and use it. So many "once were researchers" may end up as consultants etc. helping others to use what is out there. It's still can be a very useful thing to do RoryW -- Rory Williams |
#138
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My latest whinge...
On 2006-05-22, Rory Williams (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein Albert E was an idiot. Nah. But fscking Archimedes. What a tosser. We would be advanced 2000 years if it wasn't for his idiotic ideas. -- TimC You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. -- Albie E. on radios. |
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