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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 19th 08, 05:00 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Obakesan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

Hi

I'm seriously considering buying a recumbent so that I can commute to work on
it (probably about 10km each way). However despite following recumbent
discussions since about 1996 and keeping an eye on the changes in stuff
(mainly greenspeed and now Terra Trikes) I still have not ever had my arse on
one.

Riding back home last night (MTB no suspension) while thinking about the bent
I found myself tugging up the front wheel as I moved from street to foot path
(not over the gutter ;-) as there was not a smooth transition from one level
to the next (about a 2cm edge more or less).

This got me to thinking about how a recumbent would feel and how 'bumpy a
ride' it might be. Having done some "carting" in the past I can say that it
upsets my neck due to it being too bumpy and sitting back looking forward.

Since these things have no 'suspension' how will this sort of road
irregularity feel? Jarring?

Next I'd like to know about cornering. I've been told that they corner much
better than 'diamond back' bicycles. Where I'll be riding has a mixture of
short but steep downhills with 90deg corners (although the cycle path is wide
so I can easilly negociate if I slow down :-). When these are slippery will
the recumbent be significantly advantaged?

Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able
to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints
up hills.

Sorry about the long ish post, but if I'm going to pop $1500 on a recumbent
I'd better bloody like it ;-)


See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)

Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat
blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/

please remove undies for reply
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  #2  
Old September 19th 08, 06:12 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Zebee Johnstone
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Posts: 1,960
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:00:58 GMT
obakesan wrote:

First off.. trike or bike?

Unless you get an Anura delta or similar highish one, I wouldn't
recommend commuting on a trike.

The vision you get down there is not good if there's any traffic
involved, you just can't see well enough.

Most people don't realise there are two wheeled bents. Go to
flyingfurniture.com.au or trisled.com.au to see what's available in Oz.


This got me to thinking about how a recumbent would feel and how 'bumpy a
ride' it might be. Having done some "carting" in the past I can say that it
upsets my neck due to it being too bumpy and sitting back looking forward.


depends on the beastie.

You can buy bikes with suspension, and I think there may be a trike
with it, but not sure.

On my Bacchetta Giro Bike, most of the bumps are taken by a
combination of the monospar frame and the mesh seat and seat cushion.
The ride is smoother than a gokart and bumps of a cm or two are more
about "eek! my rims!" than "ouch my neck".

Really rough roads like bits of bike path with tree roots under are
unpleasant. I usually cope by lifting bum off seat by bracing between
seatback and pedals. can't pedal like that of course.


Next I'd like to know about cornering. I've been told that they corner much
better than 'diamond back' bicycles. Where I'll be riding has a mixture of
short but steep downhills with 90deg corners (although the cycle path is wide
so I can easilly negociate if I slow down :-). When these are slippery will
the recumbent be significantly advantaged?


No idea, but I don't have a problem with either slow or fast tight
turns, but you do have to practice a bit, especially slow ones.

I don't know how DF bikes manage, so can't give you a comparison. The
Giro handles easily and well in fast turns.

Trikes need a lot of body english in fast turns. It is certainly
possible to roll a trike.


Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able
to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints
up hills.


You can - more than your knees can handle. That's the problem: on an
upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder
than that. On a bent you can put your back against the seat and put
all of your leg muscles into it. Your legs can do way more than your
bodyweight or you couldn't carry things up stairs. But push the
amount you can push and bye bye knees!

So on a bent if you don't want to blow your knees you have to learn to
spin more. YOu can do 30 RPM standing up on an upright, you don't want
to drop below 50 on a bent. If you do, you will probably be pushing
too much and do your knees in. Most people try to keep over 70 at all
times on a bent.

Most people say bents are slow up hills, but when you go like for like
in weight of bike and fitness of rider, it isn't really so.

The problem is that most bents are heavier than most uprights, so are
more work on hills, and people doing the measuring are usually measuring
unfit riders against fit. A fit rider on a bent who has recumbent trained
legs can do hills quite nicely thank you and keep up with DF riders on
lighter bikes although probably not beat them. Until the downhill....

Usually what happens is a bent can keep up on the flat and not the
hills. I think this is because the bent gets a distinct aerodynamic
advantage on the flat, so the rider could be 20% less fit than the
others if just keeping up. Get to the hill, no aero, 20% worse.

Zebee
  #3  
Old September 19th 08, 06:15 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Obakesan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

Hi

In article , wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:00:58 GMT
obakesan wrote:

First off.. trike or bike?


it was in the subject


See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)

Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat
blog:
http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/

please remove undies for reply
  #4  
Old September 19th 08, 06:27 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Obakesan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

HiYa

In article , wrote:

You can buy bikes with suspension, and I think there may be a trike
with it, but not sure.


bet they're not cheap :-)


On my Bacchetta Giro Bike, most of the bumps are taken by a
combination of the monospar frame and the mesh seat and seat cushion.
The ride is smoother than a gokart and bumps of a cm or two are more
about "eek! my rims!" than "ouch my neck".


yes, well after a car door was opened on me in 1991 its been progressively
worse (although physio and chiropractic and selfdiscipline exersize has helped
this to be better longer). Definately the reason I 'hop' my bike is for my
rims though, just wondered about the bent.





Trikes need a lot of body english in fast turns. It is certainly
possible to roll a trike.


right! thanks for that warning (whole world of ugly seems possible there)



Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be

able
to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints


up hills.


You can - more than your knees can handle. That's the problem: on an
upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder


yes, with one's legs normally straighter when 'standing' on the pedals.


bodyweight or you couldn't carry things up stairs. But push the
amount you can push and bye bye knees!


good point ... I'm normally a 'spinner' with my gears, and prefer a change
mechanism (shimano rapid change is my personal favourite) to keep my cadence
to about 30 to 60 or so rpm on flats or when not 'standing' in the pedals ;-)


So on a bent if you don't want to blow your knees you have to learn to
spin more. YOu can do 30 RPM standing up on an upright, you don't want
to drop below 50 on a bent. If you do, you will probably be pushing
too much and do your knees in. Most people try to keep over 70 at all
times on a bent.


good to know ... I guess that being a 'spinner' by preference I'd probably
gravitate to that ... when power is required that is.


Most people say bents are slow up hills, but when you go like for like
in weight of bike and fitness of rider, it isn't really so.



well .. thanks for all the info Zeebe

BTW ... presently I'm not on the fair shores of South East Queensland and now
find myself in this place

http://tinyurl.com/4kp5m5

:-)

See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)

Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat
blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/

please remove undies for reply
  #6  
Old September 19th 08, 07:58 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Bleve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,258
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

On Sep 19, 3:12*pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote:


Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able
to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints
up hills.


You can - more than your knees can handle. *That's the problem: on an
upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder
than that. *


Not true at all. Pulling against the 'bars provides a solid platform
for a _lot_ of torque.

  #8  
Old September 19th 08, 08:04 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Obakesan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

In article , Bleve wrote:
On Sep 19, 3:12=A0pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote:


Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't =

be able
to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short =

stints
up hills.


You can - more than your knees can handle. =A0That's the problem: on an
upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder
than that. =A0


Not true at all. Pulling against the 'bars provides a solid platform
for a _lot_ of torque.


yeah, I kind of do that with my 'diamond back' bicycle now ... thankfully I've
not hurt my knees skiing (although I can't say the same about my toes [cross
country bindings = fall backwards if at all possible])


See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)

Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat
blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/

please remove undies for reply
  #9  
Old September 19th 08, 04:05 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Patrick Turner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 407
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering



obakesan wrote:

Hi

I'm seriously considering buying a recumbent so that I can commute to work on
it (probably about 10km each way). However despite following recumbent
discussions since about 1996 and keeping an eye on the changes in stuff
(mainly greenspeed and now Terra Trikes) I still have not ever had my arse on
one.

Riding back home last night (MTB no suspension) while thinking about the bent
I found myself tugging up the front wheel as I moved from street to foot path
(not over the gutter ;-) as there was not a smooth transition from one level
to the next (about a 2cm edge more or less).

This got me to thinking about how a recumbent would feel and how 'bumpy a
ride' it might be. Having done some "carting" in the past I can say that it
upsets my neck due to it being too bumpy and sitting back looking forward.

Since these things have no 'suspension' how will this sort of road
irregularity feel? Jarring?

Next I'd like to know about cornering. I've been told that they corner much
better than 'diamond back' bicycles. Where I'll be riding has a mixture of
short but steep downhills with 90deg corners (although the cycle path is wide
so I can easilly negociate if I slow down :-). When these are slippery will
the recumbent be significantly advantaged?

Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able
to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints
up hills.

Sorry about the long ish post, but if I'm going to pop $1500 on a recumbent
I'd better bloody like it ;-)

See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)


Only once did I ever see anyone on a bent pass me while he rode
on a flat bit of highway parallel to the cycle path where I was on an
upright.

The dude was young, strong, and fit, and I was 35 years older, a bit
heavy,
and not too fit or strong at that time.
And bents are really useless up hills. Ya can't do a good standing
sprint when ya wanna.

I pass them real fast then. Most time on a bike or bent is spent going
uphill.
Bents are only faster on the flat or down hill where the lower frontal
area gives less wind drag.

Nearly everyone I see riding a bent is doing it for fun and short
distances.
They just gotta try porridge.
I doubt too many decide to ride 200km a week just for fitness and
freedom like I do.

I have 23mm tyres and both my bikes have 531 and 753R steel frames and
yes I gotta stand a bit on pedals
over bumps and and lift the front wheel a bit over kerbs. I'm not as
good as the kids i see on bmx though.
My odometer shows 7,500 km since Jan8 this year when I bought the
cyclometer. No broken bones, and no stiff neck from leaning
foward and looking up. The position is a bit critical, and gets moreso
as you age.
If I lowered the handle bars to full time trial race position which the
good young blokes use
I'd soon get a bad neck out of it. I raced for 6 years 20 years back as
a veteran and
often did a time trial and if I lowered the bars only 5mm more than
usual i'd get a crook neck.
The setting was that critical then. I have the bars about 10mm higher
now than 20 years back.
But I have found what works. Sitting any more upright would make more
weight
on me arse, and cause arse fatigue too easily, so you need your arms to
take some weight.
Arms should be slightly bent, and absorb the bumps which you should see
coming.
Belive it or not, the right position that looks a bit awkward to non
cyclists
can be a comfortable one, like your'e a bird on wings, and at one with
your wheels.
But once last year I misjudged a bump between grass and bike path as a
storm that week
had washed it out deeper. So when I tried to first push down before
lifting the front the
wheel hit the 100m ridge as a shallow angle. "SPROING!" went the frame
and
the bump so dislodged me that I lost all conrol and fell like a sack of
potatoes on the tarmac
and to the astonishment of two runners coming the other way.
I didn't break anything although I punctured a front tyre. The grazing
to one ankle took 3 months to heal
after the infection was stopped.
I used to be able to ride 300km at one sitting. I rode 300km to Sydney
from Canberra one day aged 42, no worries.
Rested a day there and on the way back stayed at Goulburn. Later I did a
charity ride with a bunch from
Kings Cross Sydney to the top of Black Mt in Canberra, 300km from 1am to
4pm with the last 100km in a very stiff headwind.

I doubt i could have achieved this sorta travel on a bent and people
don't see you coming too well.

All up I must have ridden about 120,000 km so far over 8 years when I
have ridden bikes keenly.
I have had a few real bad necks though but not from cycling as far as i
can tell.
I used to be a builder and i did all my own carpentry on the contracts i
did.
I found putting up sheets of gyprock on ceilings and hammering or screw
driving upwards
with a sheet on my head would cause a stiff neck.
So I found a really good lady doctor who was also a very **good**
accupuncturist.
I'd been in agony and off work for 3 weeks and she had me right after
one vist and 20 minutes with 4 needles.
Pain free, and it worked a miracle. I've had a few very bad backs, and
have been reduced to crawling around the house
on all fours, and a good accupuncturist has had me right in no time.
Had a bad arm 3 years ago, couldn't type a website. Saw my accu guy, and
two visits later he had me perfect
and I typed me arse off for 6 months getting a website done.
Yoga also helps.
Chiropractics and physiotherapy usually didn't do much at all and often
made things worse.
Slow release Voltaren worked well at first, then next time not so well
and then it had side effects.
Ya can't depend on pills.

I ain't ready to buy a bent.
10km a day to work and 10km back home 5 days a week is only 100km, and
childs play.
I ride 200km a week to keep fit.
3 rides a week. I work at home, and have to do something arduous lest I
rot to pieces
in mind and body because the older you get the better you was.

I cannot do the huge rides i used to do 20 years ago, but 100km with
cheerful company
in warmer months is fine.
At 61 I don't often get a sore arse, and my back is fine, weight is back
where it was at 30, and soon my pool will warm to allow me to swim
300metres a day ( 35 laps ) and this will ease the "stange contortions"
that one
subjects oneself to on a push bike.
I have leather Brooke saddles on both bikes. Left adjusted slightly
loose they can be very uncomfortable.
So ya gotta know when to give the adjust screw a turn to tighten the
leather.
Not too much or you'll fatigue the leather. The bolt breaks after about
10,000km, and i've
broken two while out on a ride.
I replace the standard 8mm bolt with a home made 10mm one and no more
worries until finally
the leather yields at the front of the saddle and you need to spend on a
new saddle.
Some of the Brooke saddles have different types of rivetting leather and
there's a difference how long they'll last.
Depends how far ya ride a bit, and how often you grease up the saddle
with the Brooke mixture.
Don't leave ya bike against a wall sitting out in the sun.
I tried lotsa different saddles, gel-filled, foam rubber, and after
awhile they all felt like a concrete seat.
The leather has slight give, and your perineum is slung between the for
and aft fixing of the leather.
One has to get into the habit of moving off the seat to stand on the
pedals even on long flat stretches of road
to give your arse a rest.
It becomes second nature to be dynamic on the bike.

And don't forget to shave between your prick and your arsole every few
weeks because if your'e hairy down there
it leads to saddle sores.

Some lanoline rubbed on helps stop the chaffing.
Good cyclist get slim so they don't chafe much.

Who'd *need* a bent?

A trike would be grand with a battery and motor fitted for the hills.

Patrick Turner.













Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat
blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/

please remove undies for reply

  #10  
Old September 19th 08, 04:39 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Travis
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Posts: 231
Default recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering

This however is
problematic when doing desktop support (thank GOD I don't do that anymore :-)


Reminds me of this funny cartoon: http://saintgasoline.com/comics/2007-02-09.JPG
 




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